This court is in session
His Holiness, The God of Israel presides
In the matter of truth vs. lies
We are here to determine the truth of Christianity. The truth does not turn away nor hide from questioning. The truth stands on truth and will stand in the light.
I call a Christian to the witness stand.
(Please be seated)
YES or NO
Does it say "the voice" at Jesus' baptism is the voice of God? Let me be very clear with my question: Do the letters G, O, D appear around the word 'voice?' Or L, O, R, D?
Simple yes or no.
(His Holiness is anxious to hear your answer)
Court is in session. Enter
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OnlineWootah
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Post #2
Matthew 3:13-17 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?� 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.� Then he consented. 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him,[a] and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.�
A voice from heaven.
The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?� 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.� Then he consented. 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him,[a] and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.�
A voice from heaven.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image
."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image
."-
Avoice
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Post #3
[Replying to post 2 by Wootah]
Thank you for posting the passage in question. But you did not answer the question.
Yes or no?
Does it say the voice is the voice of God?
Thank you for posting the passage in question. But you did not answer the question.
Yes or no?
Does it say the voice is the voice of God?
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2timothy316
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Post #4
For he received from God the Father honor and glory when words such as these were conveyed to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my Son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.� (1 Peter 1:17)YES or NO
Does it say "the voice" at Jesus' baptism is the voice of God? Let me be very clear with my question: Do the letters G, O, D appear around the word 'voice?' Or L, O, R, D?
Simple yes or no.
(His Holiness is anxious to hear your answer)
Yes the voice was God's voice.
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Difflugia
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Post #6
John's Gospel quotes John the Baptist as saying that the voice is of "he who sent me to baptize" (1:33). John's narrator said that the Baptist was "sent from God" in 1:6. It's sort of a transitive thing, but that says to me that John's Gospel is explicitly attributing "the voice" to God. Whether it fits the letter of the OP (the word "God" might not be close enough to the word "voice"), I think it fits the spirit.PinSeeker wrote:Next?
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Avoice
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Post #7
[Replying to post 4 by 2timothy316]
Conveyed by the magnificent glory sounds very holy and cool but it doesn't say God said anything. And it doesn't claim the magnificent glory said anything. It says conveyed.
If it was God why not say it?
The voice HAS been described in the Christian testament but NONE SAID it was God
"Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes."
A voice...a voice. Thundered... angelic? None said it was God
Conveyed by the magnificent glory sounds very holy and cool but it doesn't say God said anything. And it doesn't claim the magnificent glory said anything. It says conveyed.
If it was God why not say it?
The voice HAS been described in the Christian testament but NONE SAID it was God
"Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes."
A voice...a voice. Thundered... angelic? None said it was God
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2timothy316
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Post #8
[Replying to post 7 by Avoice]
Humm, I see I didn't put the scripture in quotes let me correct that here.
"For he received from God the Father honor and glory when words such as these were conveyed to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my Son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.�" (2 Peter 1:17)
Note the underlined words, it's part of the scripture and not my words. The Bible does say that God said, "This is my Son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved." And to be completely clear here is a link to many translations to confirm it.
https://biblehub.com/2_peter/1-17.htm
There is nothing in the Bible that makes 'magnificent glory' a being. God's Word Translation puts it this way, "when he received honor and glory from God the Father and when the voice of our majestic God spoke these words to him: "This is my Son, whom I love and in whom I delight."
Or it can be reasoned that the 'magnificent glory' was the motivation for God to say, "this is my Son". it could also be reasoned that the words said to Jesus elevated him with the 'magnificent glory' of God's approval.
Weymouth New Testament says, "He received honour and glory from God the Father, and out of the wondrous glory words such as these were spoken..."
Humm, I see I didn't put the scripture in quotes let me correct that here.
"For he received from God the Father honor and glory when words such as these were conveyed to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my Son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.�" (2 Peter 1:17)
Note the underlined words, it's part of the scripture and not my words. The Bible does say that God said, "This is my Son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved." And to be completely clear here is a link to many translations to confirm it.
https://biblehub.com/2_peter/1-17.htm
There is nothing in the Bible that makes 'magnificent glory' a being. God's Word Translation puts it this way, "when he received honor and glory from God the Father and when the voice of our majestic God spoke these words to him: "This is my Son, whom I love and in whom I delight."
Or it can be reasoned that the 'magnificent glory' was the motivation for God to say, "this is my Son". it could also be reasoned that the words said to Jesus elevated him with the 'magnificent glory' of God's approval.
Weymouth New Testament says, "He received honour and glory from God the Father, and out of the wondrous glory words such as these were spoken..."
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Avoice
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Post #10
[Replying to post 8 by 2timothy316]
'Our Majestic God spoke these words?'
The King James bible is THEE bible that English speaking Christians elevate as the one from which all other translations come. And it doesn't say "our majestic God spoke these words"
It says:
"For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased"
SUCH A VOICE? They are even vague on the vagueness. SUCH a voice?
GOD was added in other translations. TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. That is a theological crime! Putting words in the mouth of God and saying he said it. Unacceptable!! Why stop there? Just rewrite the whole thing and say God said everything?
Here is God speaking. Not a voice from the excellent glory. ( I know excellent glory sounds holy but means nothing)
" I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, [font=Arial]that use their tongues, and say, He saith. [/font]Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD."
SAITH THE LORD..SAITH THE LORD..SAITH THE LORD...
Also you quote a passage that says 'words such as these'
Words such as these? That could mean anything in English or latin or Greek. Or any language you are reading. Depending on what words you are looking at. Words such as these means nothing [font=Impact][/font][font=Comic Sans MS][/font]
'Our Majestic God spoke these words?'
The King James bible is THEE bible that English speaking Christians elevate as the one from which all other translations come. And it doesn't say "our majestic God spoke these words"
It says:
"For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased"
SUCH A VOICE? They are even vague on the vagueness. SUCH a voice?
GOD was added in other translations. TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. That is a theological crime! Putting words in the mouth of God and saying he said it. Unacceptable!! Why stop there? Just rewrite the whole thing and say God said everything?
Here is God speaking. Not a voice from the excellent glory. ( I know excellent glory sounds holy but means nothing)
" I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, [font=Arial]that use their tongues, and say, He saith. [/font]Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD."
SAITH THE LORD..SAITH THE LORD..SAITH THE LORD...
Also you quote a passage that says 'words such as these'
Words such as these? That could mean anything in English or latin or Greek. Or any language you are reading. Depending on what words you are looking at. Words such as these means nothing [font=Impact][/font][font=Comic Sans MS][/font]
