In a PM to me, James Simmons wrote:"Only Former Christians can post in this discussion. Anyone may request membership in this group provided that they are not currently a member of the Christian or Catholic or any other explicitly Christian group.
Please remember a few things. This is a discussion subforum not a debate forum. As with other discussion subforums, the normal debating rules (evidence, logic etc.) do not apply. However, the rules about being civil and respectful do apply here. While the Christians and others may not post in this discussion subforum, they are allowed to read the posts here. So do not say anything inflammatory, disrespectful or uncivil."
Inflammatory? Disrespectful? Uncivil?
The title of your forum is all of those things. Do you not see that implying that former Christians are in darkness is a very unfair thing to say? Were it not for this strong evidence of bias on your part perhaps more would join in. You use of the term "darkness" in this context plainly decrees that, in all of the world, only Christianity is the correct religion. Really can't you see how this statement hurts others who are sincere in their love of God but who want nothing to do with religions? There are many of us in the world.
James Simmons
Reposted with permission.
In reply, I wrote:Let me run this by the group and see if any of them find the sub-forum title offensive. I, myself as a former-Christian, chose the name more for its humor and irony. Many of the Christians perceive that we apostates, who have known some form of Christianity and have rejected it, are worse off than even those who have never known it. The name is a kind of a way of us acknowledging that we know that is how the Christian see us but we thumb our noses at them anyway. Perhaps it is disrespectful to the Christians, but not so much to ourselves.
After all, no one chooses error. No one would choose to go against a god such as the Christians believe in. Yet some of them continue to preach and teach that this is what we have done. So it is not intended so much to say that Christianity is the only correct religion, clearly we do not believe that, but that they believe that they are the only correct religion and that to them, we are heading to the outer darkness, if we are not already there.
There is kind of a parallel in the Australians saying that they are from Down Under. Certainly they do not perceive themselves as being under or even down. But from the point of view of the egocentric residents of the Northern Hemisphere, that is where they are.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good. First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians The truth will make you free. Gospel of John
I guess I can stand to extent a little empathy even if I did find the idea of "Outer Darkness" satyr, some irony and even humor more then offensive.
Along with my acceptance of the possibility of God and understanding my responsibility to make some kind of tentative judgement about the Ultimate.
I just can't accept some of the claims that often get equated with God despite the great disagreements even within the groups making the claims especially when the conflict with what we do see to understand about our universe.
I doubt anyone is in outer darkness even if the metaphor fit rather well.
We are human that mature both individually and socially as our experiences shape us and our world.
We are not fallen creatures and I doubt if God exists that there is anything outside of God nor is God outside of time and space or the universe.
Religion like feels bind us together despite the increasing sales pitches and emphasis on personal salvation and religion.
It is like art and music, as Whitehead would say, the purpose of reason is to promote the art of living. As humans we live together and we see the relationships where we live with other creatures extending our sympathies.
Religion is supposed to help us live together better.
I see the idea of God as extending our reach and making us better people as we mature and evolve becoming what we will become, just like God in the myths or stories.
I like to see God as the memory of the universe and each and every experience enriching the life of God as we learn.
I tend to think the Atheist, Agnostics, Theists, Pan-en-theists, pantheists and anyone we might imagine or other keep thinking about the subject and never settle for attaining the ultimate. As I always enjoy saying, if we don't think about God and the Universe there are many theists that would be glad to do it for us and even make it law.
The more we understand about ourselves and our history can only help us understand what what we night or could mean about God.
Nature, or God if you prefer, seems didn't give us what we got, we sort of developed in response even as we unknowingly change the conditions and as social animals we are in it together. It seems our affections, and bond are enough to give us an advantage towards living and flourishing and as individual centers of values working together our dangerous world still seems to get better.
Everything is change and change might just be a tick of memory.
I didn't know if I should be offended by the title because I didn't know the reasoning behind it. I imagined the things you posted as possible reasons but didn't want to get ahead of myself and make any assumptions.
Now that you've explained the reasoning of the title, I like it.
DiscipleOfTruth wrote:I didn't know if I should be offended by the title because I didn't know the reasoning behind it. I imagined the things you posted as possible reasons but didn't want to get ahead of myself and make any assumptions.
Now that you've explained the reasoning of the title, I like it.
There are also Bible verses that refer to the outer darkness, the fate of non-believers.
Matthew 8:12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.�
Matthew 22:13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Matthew 25:30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Dogmatism and skepticism are both, in a sense, absolute philosophies; one is certain of knowing, the other of not knowing. What philosophy should dissipate is certainty, whether of knowledge or ignorance.
- Bertrand Russell
DiscipleOfTruth wrote:I didn't know if I should be offended by the title because I didn't know the reasoning behind it. I imagined the things you posted as possible reasons but didn't want to get ahead of myself and make any assumptions.
Now that you've explained the reasoning of the title, I like it.
There are also Bible verses that refer to the outer darkness, the fate of non-believers.
Matthew 8:12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.�
Matthew 22:13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Matthew 25:30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
I must say, as a former Satanist I find myself enjoying the term ''outer darkness'' by instinct, though I am not as much of a rebel to society and religion anymore, the attraction of the excitement in the old times is not easy to get rid of.
i dont understand it.... If we believed Jesus saved us, and the Holy Spirit entered our bodies, but then fell away.... And started hating it...
I started believe in Christianity, still do, but sometimes i hear voices tell me "hate Jesus"... And im trying to figure out why... And truly i have met Christians who love Jesus, and it is weird and i hate them... And their damn hypocrisy...
What if, becuase of my fall, after the fact i was a Christian, that i will forever be lost in my own fall... Bible says, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven... And for instance, scripture says dont engage in debate, and i kind of ignored that becuase i liked to debate, but now the debate is just mindless numbness... How could i ever reach this soul, about my God?
Is it outer darkness?
I dont get though, why you would start hating Jesus. But i question maybe i should? It is a question i want to understand even though I dont think i can bring myself to believe it...
People tell me they use to be Christians, becuase they went to church... I went to church and i wasnt a believer... Wish i was, but i wasnt... maybe we were never saved to begin with? Im entertaining that question... Was i saved? im not sure... im starting to think maybe not...
