Is the Christian God omnipotent?

[otseng]

There are various definitions for omnipotence, but we'll start with this one:

Omnipotence is the quality of having unlimited power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence

For debate:
Is the Christian God omnipotent?
What evidence/arguments supports or rejects omnipotence?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 1 by otseng]

Well, if this god is omnipotent, then everything that happens must be according to its will.
That is sobering.

One must realize that to be omnipotent, ones thoughts must be more powerful than matter and logic. If you say that God has the power to blacken the Sun. That means quell a 400 billion ton nuclear reactor.
It means whatever it thinks, is reality.

That means that all suffering, parasites,the fall, all of the horrors, even those needless ones, must be OK with it. The omissions in the Bible about child abuse and child sex must be deliberate. Slavery, genocide, rape and murder must be proscribed under the conditions it (He) specifies.

But is God omnipotent?
Well. it it were it would mean that it would be aware of everything happening and be able to take action anywhere at any time.

Such a creature would not be above notice. We should be able to find it, far more easily than we locate the Sun.
Unless it were hiding.
But why would an omnipotent creature hide?

[Divine Insight]

There are various definitions for omnipotence, but we'll start with this one:

Omnipotence is the quality of having unlimited power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence

For debate:
Is the Christian God omnipotent?

This almost seems like a trick question. Why? Because what is the "Christian God" other than the descriptions given to us by their religious scriptures?

My answer then, based on that description, is clearly no. The "Christian God" is most certainly not omnipotent IMHO. Evidence to back up my "opinion" is explained below.

What evidence/arguments supports or rejects omnipotence?

In the beginning this God is said to have cursed an evil demon to make it crawl on its belly and eat dirt?

Is that the BEST solution to this problem this God could come up with? An omnipotent God should have an infinity of solutions to chose from to address any specific problem. So my question would then be, "Why has this God chosen such an ignorant and mundane solution to try to solve this problem when he supposedly could have chosen a far better and more effective solution?"


I would even hold this up as evidence for why the myths of this God make no sense. Not only do I personally suggest that such a solution is ignorant, but even according to the Biblical stories it failed miserably. This evil demon went on to continue to corrupt the whole world. Apparently cursing him to crawl on his belly and eat dirt didn't even slow him down.

By the way, according to Christian Scriptures the serpent in the garden of Eden was indeed Satan himself. This is revealed in the Christian book of Revelation in the New Testament.

This is of course just one of countless examples I could give. Drowning humans out during the Great Flood is another example of evidence I would present for why the Christian God does not appear to be omnipotent. If he can truly do anything, then why not chose a far better solution? Even as a mere mortal human I can offer far better solutions to this type of problem, not the least of which is to have nipped it in the bud before it even got that far out of control.

The Christian God is supposed to be omnipotent?

Why then would he chose to become a human born of a virgin woman with the express intent of having humans brutally crucify him on a pole so he can then offer humans undeserved amnesty for being sinners?

I suggest that if this God is omnipotent he must then necessarily be diabolical in his choice of actions because he most certainly isn't choosing the wisest possible solutions to the problems he faces.

So no, I would say that the "Christian God" is most certainly not omnipotent.

To the contrary, based on the Christian scriptures that describe this God he appears to me to be extremely inept and ignorant. I can't imagine why an omnipotent entity would freely choose to be inept and ignorant.

So the most rational explanation for this is to simply conclude that the "Christian God" is nothing more than poorly written fictional folklore. It's not like an actual God exists who is inept and ignorant. It just shows that these fables cannot be referencing any actual God. In other words, we can dismiss them with the same confidence that we dismiss Greek mythology. There simply is no actual God associated with them.

[SallyF]

The Christian versions of "God" …

Jehovah and/or Jesus and/or the Holy Ghost.

For them to be omnipotent, they would have to exist in some way/s.

Not a soul EVER demonstrates that any of them DO exist.



The claim that the Christian versions of "God" are God with a capital G is false.

In the beginning (the Christian versions of) God created the heaven and the earth. is a FALSE claim.

Human imaginations imagined versions of God that do NOT resemble the imagined Christian versions of God, thousands of years before the imagined Christian versions of God were imagined.

If the Christian versions of God were God, there would ALWAYS have been the Christian versions of God in human imaginations.

But humans imagined "God" in ways like THIS



All gods have names.

I challenge members to use the name/s of the god/s rather than the conveniently non-specific and false term "God".

So …

None of the Christian versions of "God" is omnipotent …

Because NONE of the Christian versions of "God" is/are God with a capital G.

And NONE of the Christian versions of "God" is EVER shown to exist outside the pages of the propaganda/scripture and the minds of believers.

.

[Divine Insight]

For them to be omnipotent, they would have to exist in some way/s.

They do exist in ancient stories. So we can discuss them in the same way we can discuss Zeus, Thor, Odin, the Moon Goddess, etc, etc, etc.

So the only meaningful question here is whether the "Christian God" is omnipotent. We can acknowledge that the "Christian God" is indeed nothing more than fictional folklore. But it still exists in that capacity.

So we can then look at the descriptions of this fictional God and recognize that even by its own folklore it cannot be omnipotent. In other words, even as a fictional God it wouldn't even qualify as fictionally omnipotent.

[William]

William: There is no reason to think that The Father is not all knowing in relation to Humanity. For what is all powerful without all knowledge?

The stories do show that in the case of his role as the OT idea of GOD, he gave the appearance that he was not all knowing, but appearances can be deceiving.

In the same sense that a simulation programmer knows his program, whereas those within the creation the program makes real, do not.

In The Fathers House are many such mansions. I myself refer to these collectively as "The Hologram Universes" of which we are presently experiencing one of them, which many refer to as 'reality' and 'The Physical Universe'

There is no reason why one would not be able to comprehend The Father is able to access any of The Mansions and know all the information about each. So it is understandable in that light, that The Father is All Powerful...

The thing about this particular reality - is that it appears to be programmed to run as if it were 'making things up as it went along' finding its own way as it were...so the less obvious interference the better.

Stories of obvious interference are like adjustments although some of the supposed adjustments - I am thinking of the flood story in particular - haven't left a physical mark on the landscape. Either it didn't happen, or if it did, The Father removed all sign of it happening...except for in the bible...so why go to all the trouble of removing the evidence but leaving a story behind for people to trip up on...unless The Father wanted the story to remain in a book for us to read about and ponder on without end.

Seems more reasonable to suppose such stories are tangents to get distracted by, and not something The Father actually did at all.

[bjs]

The challenge of omnipotence is that there is no way to establish omnipotence through empirical means. No matter how powerful of an act God does, there could always be an even more powerful act. Sort of like no matter how bright a room is, we could always turn on another light, or no matter how heavy something is we could always add more weight. I cannot think of any act so powerful that would empirically establish omnipotence.

The only meaningful argument would be Anselm’s Greatest-Possible-Being argument. The greatest possible Being would have to have unlimited power. Otherwise there would it would be possible for that Being to be greater.

[Divine Insight]

The challenge of omnipotence is that there is no way to establish omnipotence through empirical means. No matter how powerful of an act God does, there could always be an even more powerful act. Sort of like no matter how bright a room is, we could always turn on another light, or no matter how heavy something is we could always add more weight. I cannot think of any act so powerful that would empirically establish omnipotence.

The only meaningful argument would be Anselm’s Greatest-Possible-Being argument. The greatest possible Being would have to have unlimited power. Otherwise there would it would be possible for that Being to be greater.

This becomes irrelevant when just the opposite is true as is the case with the Christian God.

If you go into a dark room and can easily see that more light can easily be added then you instantly know that the room is not lit up with maximum omnipotence.

This is the situation we have with the Christian God. It's not that his acts are so brilliant that we can't imagine better actions. It's just the opposite. We can easily suggest far more intelligent solutions to the problems described in these stories.

So the question isn't "Can we prove that the Christian God is omnipotent?", but rather the question is, "If the Christian God is omnipotent why isn't he acting in a way that exhibits omnipotence?"

In short, there's no need to even try to prove that the Christian God is omnipotent when it's already crystal clear that he's not.

[Zzyzx]

.
Perhaps the right term is IMPOTENT “not potent : lacking in power, strength, or vigor : helpless� https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/impotent

This seems descriptive of any proposed entity for whom no verifiable evidence has shown to have accomplished anything (in spite of storied intent). Unverifiable tales and folklore do not constitute verifiable evidence.

[otseng]

Defining the word omnipotent is difficult. It has many shades of definitions and it makes discussing the topic difficult. It's possible for two people to have differing positions on omnipotence, yet in the end they can both be correct since they have different definitions.

I'll start by looking at the origin of the term and early usage.

Omnipotent comes from Latin omnipotēns -- from omnis (“all�) and potēns (“mighty, powerful�).
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/omnipotens#Latin

It is used in the Apostles' Creed (120-250 AD)

Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles%27_Creed

It is in the Nicene creed (381 AD).

Credimus in unum Deum,
Patrem omnipotentem,
factorem coeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium,

https://earlychurchtexts.com/public/nicene_creed.htm

It is in the Athanasian Creed (unknown date of origin, perhaps 500s AD).

Similiter omnipotens Pater, omnipotens Filius, omnipotens [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres omnipotentes, sed unus omnipotens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed

Practically all major branches of Christianity accepts these creeds. Note, in the English translations of the creeds, omnipotent is translated as "almighty".

In Greek, omnipotent is pantokrat�r (παντοκ�άτω�).
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... 3841&t=KJV

From παντο- (panto-), combining form of πᾶς (pâs, “all�) + the stem of κ�άτος (krátos, “power, strength�) + -τω� (-t�r, “agent-noun suffix�).

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%80%C ... F%89%CF%81

In the KJV, the word omnipotent is found in Rev 19:6.

[Rev 19:6 KJV] 6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

In English, the word omnipotent leaped into the scene in late 1500s, probably due to the English translations of the Bible.


https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?c ... nt%3B%2Cc0