The age of miracles

Athetotheist · Post by **Athetotheist** » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:03 pm

It's not really my intention to make a whole thread out of this; I just mean to pose a question as a point of curiosity: Can anyone refer me to textual evidence that the age of miracles was to end with the passing of the apostles?

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:00 am

tam wrote: Peace to you,

2timothy316 wrote: [Replying to post 17 by tam]
A known flawed way to read the Bible. The conclusion is drawn first and then one goes and finds scripture to support it. This is an example of eisegesis.

This could be said of anything that is supported by what is written.
No it cannot. Those that use the formula of esisgesis can make the Bible appear to support anything. Thus I do not debate with those that use it as it's a fools quest to debate a person that takes the leads the Bible where they want it to and do not allow the Bible to lead them.

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:09 am

[Replying to post 20 by Avoice]

Actually the issue is, do people still have the gift of performing miracles. Like resurrection of the dead, speaking in tongues, healing deaf/blind/deathly ill etc. The wondrous actions that the apostles performed after Pentecost 33 CE.

Three planes landing at the same time happens daily and is an act of skill. A person raising a person from the dead is act of God.

Avoice · Post by **Avoice** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:52 am

[Replying to post 11 by Eloi]

Well, so much for Christians. It says all who call out to God will be saved. They will be calling out to Jesus. Ohhh...excuse me: Yeshua.

There own bible tells them this yet they don't consider it. Then again they may be scared to call out to God and rightly so. He is aware that they believe and hope he was killed on a cross. they could have saved HIM by being obedient. But they are filled with joy that he was spit on and tortured and nailed up to die. He had to suffer for their evil ways. So they hope. So they believe. And they love it. And they celebrate it.

Christian love. Love, love, love. Their love for God should serve as an example for the rest of us. They would never publicly shame him. Like portraying him nearly naked and bloody with a crown of thorns. They would fo their very best to ensure others think of him respectfully and with dignity

polonius · Post by **polonius** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:34 pm

2timothy316 wrote: [Replying to post 20 by Avoice]

Actually the issue is, do people still have the gift of performing miracles. Like resurrection of the dead, speaking in tongues, healing deaf/blind/deathly ill etc. The wondrous actions that the apostles performed after Pentecost 33 CE.

Three planes landing at the same time happens daily and is an act of skill. A person raising a person from the dead is act of God.

RESPONSE: Since the four books of the New Testament were written between 70 and 95 AD by non-witnesses, your "performing miracles" evidence argument isn't really too credible, is it?

Saber Bob · Post by **Saber Bob** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:57 pm

[Replying to post 24 by polonius]

And for the support of this your going to rely upon phrases such as "the great majority of scholars"?

Ever stop to think that late composition is more of an academic rumor than evidence based?

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:57 pm

Avoice wrote: No more miracles? You actually believe that?

The Sea of Reeds were parted during the exodus from Egypt. Would you call that a miracle?
Of course Christians say that was a miracle.

Well thats nothing compared to the miracle that is happening in our lifetime. A miracle that is prophecied in the scriptures more times than anything else. And that is the Jews returning to Israel after a 2000 year exile. Who would have believed that to happen? Thrown to all parts if the world. Discriminated against and persecuted. Not to mention the holocaust. The Jews should've disappeared long, long ago. But oh no...AGAINST ALL ODDS they have returned to their land.

"Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land."

HERE IS A MIRACLE!
HERE IS WHAT A REAL FULFILLMENT IF PROPHECY LOOKS LIKE:

(clip showing three planes landing in Israel simultaneously. One from Europe. One from the USA. And one from Canada. Exiled Jews returning to Israel. Its an ongoing miracle. AS PROPHECIED

I know not, why many christians refuse to believe in miracles. But, there is a large group that think they have ended even though God never said such a thing. They close their eyes to truth and hear not. They truly have eyes that can't see and ears that can't hear.

The reason those things are happening is that God's promises are irrevocable. Point blank period. The blessings and promises to Abraham are still at play and will be done forever as God has said it will be. The mixed multitude of Israel are God's chosen people. He will not fail them.

God has always worked within His rules and world he created to accomplish what He wills. Once Israel is His theocracy, again, all the world will know and keep his appointed times. Unless, they want no rain upon their crops. The Tanakh(OT) tells all who read it that Moses' law and the feasts, holy days(holidays) and Sabbaths will be followed by all mankind. Why aren't we following them now if we know they are to return? And receive blessing instead of a curse?

Avoice · Post by **Avoice** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:29 am

[Replying to post 22 by 2timothy316]

And if someone performs a miracle so what? Is that suppose to prove we are to listen to their voice? Miracles mean nothing. NOTHING. Many are impressed by Jesus' miracles. And many believe in Jesus because of the miracle stories.

But miracles mean absolutely nothing. Miracles are performed in all religions. If miracles prove Jesus is the way, then what about miracles attributed to Hanuman the Hindu monkey God? You going to become a Hindu?

God tells us that he allows people to perform miracles to test us. To see if we will follow the voice of another.

MIRACLES- MEANS NOTHING!

Athetotheist · Post by **Athetotheist** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:48 am

Avoice wrote: No more miracles? You actually believe that?

The Sea of Reeds were parted during the exodus from Egypt. Would you call that a miracle?
Of course Christians say that was a miracle.

Well thats nothing compared to the miracle that is happening in our lifetime. A miracle that is prophecied in the scriptures more times than anything else. And that is the Jews returning to Israel after a 2000 year exile. Who would have believed that to happen? Thrown to all parts if the world. Discriminated against and persecuted. Not to mention the holocaust. The Jews should've disappeared long, long ago. But oh no...AGAINST ALL ODDS they have returned to their land.

"Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land."

HERE IS A MIRACLE!
HERE IS WHAT A REAL FULFILLMENT IF PROPHECY LOOKS LIKE:

(clip showing three planes landing in Israel simultaneously. One from Europe. One from the USA. And one from Canada. Exiled Jews returning to Israel. Its an ongoing miracle. AS PROPHECIED

It's been my understanding that the scriptures to which you refer are about the end of the Babylonian exile. Was an act of the United Nations in 1948 necessarily miraculous?

When it comes to surviving against all odds, it seems to me that the survival of Native Americans has been no less miraculous than that of the Jews.

Athetotheist · Post by **Athetotheist** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:59 am

I began this discussion with the intention of just gathering people's thoughts on the subject. I don't want my initial intent to come off as subterfuge, but another question occurs to me----or rather, two questions: If the age of miracles is not supposed to have ended, why don't we see the kinds of miracles we read about in the Christian gospels? If it is supposed to have ended, how is it convincing to claim that such miracles ever happened when they don't happen now?

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:56 am

Athetotheist wrote: I began this discussion with the intention of just gathering people's thoughts on the subject. I don't want my initial intent to come off as subterfuge, but another question occurs to me----or rather, two questions: If the age of miracles is not supposed to have ended, why don't we see the kinds of miracles we read about in the Christian gospels?

This has been my point in this discussion. We don't see people performing miracles anymore. However, does that mean there are no miracles at all? No. When a person says a prayer to Jehovah God, that is a miracle. Either out-loud or in their mind, that prayer is a communication to the Almighty who doesn't live in our physical universe. The Bible is a miracle. It survival of over 3500 years with it's message intact and its wide availability despite many efforts to destroy or suppress it is a miracle. Yet the Bible survival is not at the request of a man because no man has lived long enough to make sure the Bible has survived 3500 years.

Miracles of today are not the raising of the dead, healing of the sick etc anymore. They are less noticeable and they are not performed by humans. The miracles of today involve Jehovah God's will. Its not to prove He exist either. One of His desires is that no one be destroyed but 'all to attain to repentance.' How He is accomplishing this is the miracle and while people are involved, it is not at the command of a person but His Son that it's happening.

If it is supposed to have ended, how is it convincing to claim that such miracles ever happened when they don't happen now?

This whole universe is a miracle. The very fact that we are alive is a miracle. If a person doesn't think this happened by the hand of God then is not likely they will accept anything the read, hear or even see as being at God's command. The Pharisees saw Jesus perform miracles right in front them and they said that he was a ruler of demons. They didn't care that he could even raise the dead. After he raised Lazarus from the dead the Jewish leadership wanted to kill them both!

Long story short, if a person isn't already convinced that miracles exist by what is already around them, apparently these will have to wait until it will be undeniable that that everything in the Bible was true. The only problem is it will be too late for them to try and build a relationship with God. (Ez 39:7, Rev 6:12-17)

I will let you in on the next big Bible prophecy though if you can't accept that this universe we live in is a miracle. If you can see it's from God then you will have the evidence you seek.

â€œWhenever it is that they are saying: â€˜Peace and security!â€™ then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them.â€�â€‹â€”1 Thess. 5:3.

Note I'm not claiming that this is my prophecy. I'm just quoting the Bible. However, when you see the whole world trying to convince people of a message of 'Peace and security' at the same time, then be aware that is the start of the biggest calamity the world has ever seen.

When will this happen? The Bible doesn't say. How or why will it happen? The Bible doesn't say.