Does all NT instruction apply to Christians today?

[RRL]

Does all instruction given to Christians in the New Testament, unless noted as applying only to a specific group of people, apply to Christians today? Yes or no?

I'm including all instruction, regardless of whether it was from Jesus, Paul, John the Baptist, etc.

If the answer is no, which specific instruction would you say does NOT apply to Christians today?

[RRL]

The whole New Testament is a guide for Christians, but in some cases instructions are given to individuals for their specific setting. Modern Christians must look at the underlying principles that guide those instructions, even if the instructions do not apply in the way which they were originally stated.

For instance in Luke 17:14, after healing ten men with leprosy, Jesus instructed the men to “Go, show yourselves to the priests.� The underlying principles of gratitude and obedience in Luke 17:11-19 are important. The specific command to “show yourselves to the priests� does not apply to Christians today even though that is not explicitly stated in the text.

Or again, Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 that a woman should “cover her head� when she prays or prophesies. That command relied on a specific cultural standard. When a woman uncovered her head she was actively looking for a romantic partner. Paul wrote that such activities were not appropriate during a worship service. In Western nations today a head covering does not have the same significance. There are ways that women and men can dress that is focused on attracting the opposite sex, which should not be the attitude one takes to a worship service, but head covering is not part of it as a rule. The underlying principle still applies to modern Christians even though the specific instruction does not.

BJS, what about 1st Corinthians 14:33-37? See my post in response to Tam above for the text of the passage.

[RRL]

[Replying to post 1 by RRL]

I believe so, yes absolutely. The "new testament", the Christian Greek scriptures contain all the commandments, directives and instructions for Christian Living.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS

As a JW, I would assume you don't try to say the rule that women must be silent in church from 1 Corinthians 14:33-37 "only applied back then"? If so, I might have issues with you on other stuff, but I at least will commend you for being consistent, and true to the instruction, unlike probably about 90-99% of Christians on the planet with regard to the rule I mentioned above.

[Tcg]

[Replying to RRL]

We can also examine 1 Corinthians 11 and see that it not only doesn't support bjs' claim, it outright contradicts it.

• 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.
  
  7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels.
  
  <bolding mine>

The author states clearly the reason women are to keep their heads covered. Men have headship over women and women were created for men. There's not even a hint of women looking for romantic partners.

According to this passage, women are to be in submission to men and their head covering symbolizes their submissive state.


Tcg

[sorrento]

Do Christians follow Christ's instructions as in Luke 14:26?

“If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple."

I suspect that we will be told it really means they have to love their family less than they love Jesus. If that is the case, then why use the word "hate"?

[JehovahsWitness]

I suspect that we will be told it really means they have to love their family less than they love Jesus. If that is the case, then why use the word "hate"?

The writer didn't use the word hate at all, he used the word "miseo".("Hate" is an English word and English didn't even exist when the bible was written).



JW


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[Tcg]

I suspect that we will be told it really means they have to love their family less than they love Jesus. If that is the case, then why use the word "hate"?

The writer didn't use the word hate at all, he used the word "miseo".("Hate" is an English word and English didn't even exist when the bible was written).

The writer didn't use the word "miseo." He used the word "μισέω." "Miseo" is an English transliteration which wouldn't have existed when the bible was written.

None of this matters much given that the word "μισέω" means hate. That's why it is translated in English as hate.

Aren't word studies fun?


Tcg

[Goose]

I suspect that we will be told it really means they have to love their family less than they love Jesus. If that is the case, then why use the word "hate"?

The writer didn't use the word hate at all, he used the word "miseo".("Hate" is an English word and English didn't even exist when the bible was written).

The writer didn't use the word "miseo." He used the word "μισέω." "Miseo" is an English transliteration which wouldn't have existed when the bible was written.

None of this matters much given that the word "μισέω" means hate. That's why it is translated in English as hate.

Aren't word studies fun?


Tcg

That’s fine, we can use “hate.� But Strong’s defines μισέω as: “from a primary μῖσος mîsos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension, to love less:—hate(-ful).� So there does seem to be some validity to the argument that this verse can be interpreted as “love less.�

But even using the stronger “hate� meaning surely by applying basic reading comprehension methods to this text, and by taking into account Jesus’ other numerous statements regarding love, we see this particular statement in Luke 14:26 is hyperbole?

Consider the verse that directly follows in Luke 14:27...

�Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.�

What’s happening in these two verses? Is Jesus saying to be his disciple we must literally hate our family, find our own cross to carry, and come after Jesus with that cross? That’s certainly not how the early church interpreted these words.

Or is it more reasonable to think this whole passage (Matthew 14:25-33) was to be taken metaphorically? The point of the metaphors being a stark warning of the potential cost of discipleship. The cost of discipleship may be very high. So high in fact, that it may cost one all that one has even one’s own life.

[Zzyzx]

.

Does all NT instruction apply to Christians today?

Of course all NT instructions apply to Christians today

EXCEPT instructions they don’t want to follow. In which case, make up an excuse, redefine words, ‘interpret’, and declare innocence (while looking very pious).

[Goose]

Then there is also his 'woman should be silent in Church' issue. Paul gave that command (and it is his own command, he makes that clear when he says "I" do not permit...), not because that is a rule from God... but in an effort to keep the congregation (women and men) safe (safe from Roman law and safe from the Jews persecuting them).

A - With rare exceptions, Roman women were not permitted to speak in public. So any woman speaking in public, outside, may have been in trouble with the law of the land.

B - Jewish women were not permitted to speak or teach in the synagogue (even in the State of Israel now, women are fighting just to be able to read from the Torah at the wall). Remember that the early (Jewish) Christians were in hiding from the Jews (who could hand them over to the Romans). Paul would have been in a good position to know about what those persecutors were looking for.


It was not about rules from Christ. Because we have freedom in Christ. And both men and women are equal in God, just as both men and women can speak in the Church (which is NOT a religion; but which is the Body of Christ, made of people, both men and women); and just as both men and women will reign as kings and priests with Christ in His Kingdom.



Hope that helps some!


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Tam, what about 1st Corinthians 14:33-37?

"33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.

As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized."

Hmmmmm. Houston, looks like Tam has a problem on her hands. Lol

Let's draw from a little broader context here.

• "26 What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; 28 but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. 30 But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; 33 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
  
  34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. 36 Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?"

A few points.

1. The context here is guidelines for keeping order during formal assembly.

2. The command to remain silent in church is not only applied to women it is given two other times in the passage. One time in particular it is explicitly applied to men in a given situation regarding tongues.

3. All can prophesy. Prophetesses were not unprecedented.

4. Paul may have meant that in church he does not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man (1 Timothy 2:12) by “women are to keep silent in the churches.�

[tam]

Peace to you,

Then there is also his 'woman should be silent in Church' issue. Paul gave that command (and it is his own command, he makes that clear when he says "I" do not permit...), not because that is a rule from God... but in an effort to keep the congregation (women and men) safe (safe from Roman law and safe from the Jews persecuting them).

A - With rare exceptions, Roman women were not permitted to speak in public. So any woman speaking in public, outside, may have been in trouble with the law of the land.

B - Jewish women were not permitted to speak or teach in the synagogue (even in the State of Israel now, women are fighting just to be able to read from the Torah at the wall). Remember that the early (Jewish) Christians were in hiding from the Jews (who could hand them over to the Romans). Paul would have been in a good position to know about what those persecutors were looking for.


It was not about rules from Christ. Because we have freedom in Christ. And both men and women are equal in God, just as both men and women can speak in the Church (which is NOT a religion; but which is the Body of Christ, made of people, both men and women); and just as both men and women will reign as kings and priests with Christ in His Kingdom.



Hope that helps some!


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Tam, what about 1st Corinthians 14:33-37?

"33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.

As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized."

Hmmmmm. Houston, looks like Tam has a problem on her hands. Lol

Sorry, I was thinking of the timothy verse where Paul states that "he" does not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man; that she is to remain quiet.


As to the rest above, you will note that Paul refers back to the Law which states a woman must be silent. But we are not under the Law, so why should that matter to us who are in Christ? It was Jewish women - under the law - who were not permitted to speak in the synagogues. (If you are a group of Jewish Christians in hiding from persecution for being Christian, it might be unwise to exercise all the freedoms that you have in Christ; at least in public.)


**

Even so, while Paul does teach on issues that are specific to time and place and circumstance, Paul can also make mistakes. All men can. Hence, if one wants to know the truth, one should hold all things up to Christ (Christ is the Light and the Truth), including anything from Paul or anyone else.





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy