Why do people want to go to Heaven?

[Topaz27]

I don't want to go to heaven. As far as I can tell one of these situations must be true.

1) I go to heaven, and I am fully aware that people are burning in hell forever. If I knew that was true I would feel bad. Therefore I feel bad in heaven. Heaven can contain suffering. But according to Rev 21:4 There is no suffering in heaven. So this idea doesn't make any sense according to the Bible.

2) I go to heaven, and I am fully aware that people are burning in hell forever. But this time I'm ok/happy about it. In that senario there would be some kind of change in my emotion, which I'm not ok with. I'm not ok with the idea that "I know that people are burning in hell, and that's ok with me." That idea disgusts me. So I wouldn't want to go to that kind of heaven.

3) I go to heaven, and I'm not aware that people are burning in hell forever. That's not okay with me either. First off if I end up in heaven, and some of my dead loved ones aren't there, it's pretty obvious where they would be. So this idea doesn't really make sense. But let's say that God erases my memories about my loved ones. I would hate that. I don't want to go to that heaven.

4) I go to heaven I don't know about people burning in hell, but I still feel terrible. This obviously makes no sense with the premises of heaven, but it is technically a possibility.

Heaven is always described as this amazing place where God fixes everthing. But it just doesn't seem like a good thing to me.

So I was wondering why/if people wanted to go to heaven. Both thiests and athiests.

If there are other options that exist please tell me.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Topaz27]

"Hell" doesnt exist, there is not place where invisible souls are tortured for all eternity...

Many atheists I have spoken have never thought the religion of their youth lied to them about what the bible says regarding the condition of the dead. They leave God but they will argue to ghe death that what their church taught them as children is in the bible really is in there. You can take the boy out of the church but in my experience you can never take the church out if the boy ...which may be why atheists will defend church teachings as being bible based even though few I have spoken to have ever really studied the topic ....

Does the bible really say we have immortal souls that can be tortured forever?

[Tcg]

They leave God...

Atheists don't leave God. They lack belief in god/gods of any kind. It's not complicated and yet many continue to misrepresent atheism.


Tcg

[ttruscott]

My Christian answers to these presented problems:

I don't want to go to heaven. As far as I can tell one of these situations must be true.

1) I go to heaven, and I am fully aware that people are burning in hell forever. If I knew that was true I would feel bad.

Just how much would walking past a graveyard of the most psychopathic villains ever to live upset your harmony with your life here and now? Does the awareness of the dead from the past really affect your enjoyment of the here and now so much or is this just a bit of emotional hyperbole?

Christians believe that if you make it to heaven you will know beyond any doubt that only the people totally given to a psychopathic hatred for all other people, ie, only the truly demonic, have been banished from this reality.

2) I go to heaven, and I am fully aware that people are burning in hell forever. But this time I'm ok/happy about it. In that senario there would be some kind of change in my emotion, which I'm not ok with. I'm not ok with the idea that "I know that people are burning in hell, and that's ok with me." That idea disgusts me. So I wouldn't want to go to that kind of heaven.

Think of being in a truly horrendous criminal gang but then coming to understand just how evil your life is and repenting of the evil you were a part of even if only peripherally. Such freedom from being evil far overrides the comradery and affinity you will remember with those incarcerated forever for their commitment to never changing to fit YHWH's moral norms.

3) I go to heaven, and I'm not aware that people are burning in hell forever. That's not okay with me either. 4) I go to heaven I don't know about people burning in hell, but I still feel terrible. This obviously makes no sense with the premises of heaven, but it is technically a possibility.

As far as I know, no Church has espoused this as a Christian option...I certainly don't.

Heaven is always described as this amazing place where God fixes everthing. But it just doesn't seem like a good thing to me.

The Christian answer is that it doesn't seem good to people who are not heaven ready yet. They are still addicted to sin and identify with sinners as a proper way to live, that justice is meaningless and that people's free will choices to be evil should either be ignored or should be overridden to keep polite moral society free from evil depredations.

The idea that ordinary people are sent to hell is wrong...they are not ordinary even in a worldly situation. The one's damned are irretrievably dedicated to evil by their own free will and by their own free will they chose the consequences of their choice over heaven and cannot be dissuaded. Iow, only demons are banished to hell. Will you really miss them so much?

Only those who cannot be saved will not be saved.

[Topaz27]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

The bulk of that had absolutely no connection to my question.

But why don't you think that hell exists?

[Topaz27]

[Replying to post 4 by ttruscott]

I'm not bothered by thinking about dead people right now, because I don't believe in heaven or hell. Right now, I don't think that people are burning in hell for eternity, just because of some finite crime on Earth. But if I were to go to heaven, it would be obvious that there are people burning in hell for eternity. That's when I would get upset.

But I don't think that even the people that have done the most horrendous things possible, deserve to be tortured forever. Consider a most rapists. Most were sexually assaulted as children, and is basically why they sexually assult when they're older. While I obviously think rape is a terrible thing, is it justified to send them to hell forever?

I guess I'm curious about what someone needs to do, to be sent to hell. Then tell me why/site your sources.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

The bulk of that had absolutely no connection to my question.

Yes because the problem is I cannot answer your question because it is built on a false premise, namely that hell (a place for torturing invisible "souls") exists.

But why don't you think that hell exists?

Because I've studied the subject and found that the bible (which I believe is God's word) doesn't support this teaching. But I take it you want to discuss with those that believe the things you were possibly taught when you were a little child, not what the bible actually teaches so I wont deraille the thread further.

Feel free to start another thread (or ask me for more details over in them subforum LINKED below) if ever you wish to know what the bible really teaches.
viewforum.php?f=26


Enjoy your thread,


JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[Topaz27]

I just found an interesting Bible verse. If you have a red letter Bible, the text is in red. Anyways the verse is Mark 16:16. It basically states that those who don't believe, will be damned. To me, that sounds like everyone that doesn't believe in God will be damned and sent to hell.

[JehovahsWitness]

So I was wondering why/if people wanted to go to heaven. Both thiests and athiests.

If there are other options that exist please tell me.

I dont want to go to heaven, Im a Christian.

If there are other options that exist please tell me.

Yes, live forever on this our planet earth.




JW

[ttruscott]

I guess I'm curious about what someone needs to do, to be sent to hell. Then tell me why/site your sources.

Well you will get more answers than mine to this question ranging from nothing, hell does not exist to they refused to accept Christ's death was their salvation by faith.

My pov is that one must sin the unforgivable sin from a state of innocence (not sinfulness) with / by a free will decison to reject YHWH as their GOD and HIS Son as the only saviour from sin and evil due to a decison to believe without proof that They were evil people motivated by evil desires.

Even though the sinful elect FIRST chose to accept by faith YHWH's deity to become elect so as to be safe from hell and only then to rebel against HIS commands and go their own way as sinful,

those who will end in hell rejected this stratagem because they thought it did not measure up to their great disdain of YHWH and their great faith in the idea that YHWH was not just a false god but a liar and as the first liar he was the most evil person in all creation. They believed HE lied about HIS deity, about the nature of heaven and hell, the ultimate disvalue of sin in HIS eyes and its inherent enslaving addictive quality and, due to the necessity to keep HIS holy Church from the predations of evil, the absolute necessity of their banishment to hell.

But most of all they believed that if there was such a thing as evil, salvation from sin was either not necessary or if it was, it was definitely NOT found in the self sacrifice of the Son on the behalf of the sinful elect.

By rejecting the warning that to choose evil would entangle them in the addictive enslavement of evil which they could not break themsleves and by rejecting the Son as their saviour by their free will they became evil with no possible end in sight, ie, eternally evil. GOD cannot overturn their rejection of the Saviour because that decision was a free will decision and what is free will if it is not sacrosanct and not to be changed by a GOD on a whim.

You might want to refer to the fact that GOD changes people's minds all the time but people are sinners and the minds HE changes are enslaved to sin and not free and all the sinful elect gave HIM permission to change their enslaved minds to free them from evil if they should ever sin when they accepted the Son as their saviour...the Satanic did not ask this of HIM.

They knew that if YHWH was ever to prove HE was our creator GOD that they would end in hell but chose that fate rather than to ever end in a heavenly marriage with HIM. Though they did not actually believe it would happen to them, they did accept that hell was better than a heavenly marriage with their enemy. So be it...