Why do people want to go to Heaven?

[Topaz27]

I don't want to go to heaven. As far as I can tell one of these situations must be true.

1) I go to heaven, and I am fully aware that people are burning in hell forever. If I knew that was true I would feel bad. Therefore I feel bad in heaven. Heaven can contain suffering. But according to Rev 21:4 There is no suffering in heaven. So this idea doesn't make any sense according to the Bible.

2) I go to heaven, and I am fully aware that people are burning in hell forever. But this time I'm ok/happy about it. In that senario there would be some kind of change in my emotion, which I'm not ok with. I'm not ok with the idea that "I know that people are burning in hell, and that's ok with me." That idea disgusts me. So I wouldn't want to go to that kind of heaven.

3) I go to heaven, and I'm not aware that people are burning in hell forever. That's not okay with me either. First off if I end up in heaven, and some of my dead loved ones aren't there, it's pretty obvious where they would be. So this idea doesn't really make sense. But let's say that God erases my memories about my loved ones. I would hate that. I don't want to go to that heaven.

4) I go to heaven I don't know about people burning in hell, but I still feel terrible. This obviously makes no sense with the premises of heaven, but it is technically a possibility.

Heaven is always described as this amazing place where God fixes everthing. But it just doesn't seem like a good thing to me.

So I was wondering why/if people wanted to go to heaven. Both thiests and athiests.

If there are other options that exist please tell me.

[Topaz27]

Ok but for that to be true, God would have to somehow change my emotions.

[Tcg]

That said, those that love God trust his judgement, if he kills someone because they are wicked everyone in heaven will be happy, ]

This would only be true if everyone in heaven lacks both empathy and compassion. Perhaps that is the standard. If so, it is rather disappointing that God doesn't expect more from humans.

Callousness and self-pride don't seem to be great qualifications to share eternity with God unless of course he shares the same traits.


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

Ok but for that to be true, God would have to somehow change my emotions.

No the God of the bible allows people the freedom to feel as they so wish... and face the consequences of any choices their feelings push them to make. You can feel as you wish but but sensible people allow their feelings to be influenced by facts. Learning more about something often results in changed feelings.


Its been enlightening talking to you, have a really great weekend,


JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[onewithhim]

...we have an entire generation that is more intersted in feelings than facts, so establishing truth is secondary to discussing feelings.

Given that Topaz27 stated this:

The point is:I wouldn't be comfortable in heaven, knowing that there are people who didn't make it to heaven.

It is clear that he is describing empathy: the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

This is quite commendable for an individual of any generation.

His valid concern also reveals a depth of compassion: sorrow or pity for the sufferings of another person.

Both are too often in short supply. It's refreshing to see them displayed so clearly.


Tcg

I agree. I was just trying to ease his feelings of distress over the perceived agonies of those he purported to possibly be suffering in fire. I was feeling empathy for his own feelings of distress and sadness.

I believe that he has since reported positive feelings upon learning that wicked people are not tortured but simply cease to exist.

The truth about something usually encourages feelings of relief or some degree of comfort.

[onewithhim]

I believe that I need to clarify my point. I didn't really state it in my original post.

Let's say I go to heaven, I'm with Jesus, or whatever the good outcome after death is. I then realize that some of the people that I love aren't there, how could I have a good time in heaven?

For example, if the Bible is true, there is no way my girlfriend is going to heaven. She just isn't. So let's say she dies today, and then I die one year after her. I the somehow get to heaven, but I realize she isn't there. She's obviously not on Earth, and she's not in heaven (or whatever the good version of the afterlife is) she's obviously in hell (or destroyed forever)

If it's possible that not everyone that I love is in heaven, wouldn't that make heaven less great?

Yes, I understand what you're saying. This is, at present, a conundrum. I don't think any of us can imagine what we are going to feel if and when we don't see someone we have loved in Paradise with us. Of course we are distressed at even the thought. To imagine any of my children not being in Paradise is something I can't even consider right now. What I have to do is hope for the best (perhaps Jehovah will see something good in them and spare them---He always looks for the good in people rather than the bad) and know that I will understand some day. There are many things that we don't understand now, but I believe we will understand after Armageddon when Jesus begins his Thousand-Year Reign.

[ttruscott]

The choices are everlasting life and everlasting death -- not heaven or hell:

Really?

The state of eternal heavenly life refers to our full and complete communion and telepathic communication with GOD and everyone else in the heavenly state called a marriage at all times no matter which part of the physical universe we are currently exploring. It is not a place but an experience.

Hell is the temporary state of being disembodied (dead in ordinary language, pre-resurrection) but hell is temporary. Hell is the English word that refers only to Sheol (Hebrew), ie, Hades (Greek) all of which are thrown into the outer darkness of being put outside of this created reality, ie, hell is not the outer darkness in my pov.

imCo
In both the heavenly and hellish states, people are self and other aware but one is alive in GOD and the other is dead without GOD. Death of the body refers to it being separated from the spirit which gives it life; death of the spirit refers to its being separated from GOD which gives it life. The spirit is always (eternally) self and other aware but is either called dead or alive according to its relationship with YHWH, not actual existence or a self perception of existence which is everlasting.

[ttruscott]

I believe that I need to clarify my point. I didn't really state it in my original post.

Let's say I go to heaven, I'm with Jesus, or whatever the good outcome after death is. I then realize that some of the people that I love aren't there, how could I have a good time in heaven?

For example, if the Bible is true, there is no way my girlfriend is going to heaven. She just isn't. So let's say she dies today, and then I die one year after her. I the somehow get to heaven, but I realize she isn't there. She's obviously not on Earth, and she's not in heaven (or whatever the good version of the afterlife is) she's obviously in hell (or destroyed forever)

If it's possible that not everyone that I love is in heaven, wouldn't that make heaven less great?

I could have written these anytime during my high school and college years and often argued from this position. Then the hippy years of love everyone and accept everyone's beliefs intervened (yes, I'm that old) but unlike Ginsberg in HOWL, I blamed the destruction of these times in peoples lives on a spiritual reason, not political.

My journey then took me into the face of evil, my own evil and the true evil of some others. I met people whom I could only describe as evil and I had to face the fact that I shared some of those evil qualities. The difference was that they revelled in the freedom that being evil gave them and I grew to hate myself. These eye opening experiences brought me to the GOD I had hated and HIS Son repudiating all others. This meant that I was willing to have GOD send such evil people to hell and out of my future forever.

My awareness of some Biblical doctrines weighed upon me as I pondered them over the years:
- that my enemies would be the people of my own family extrapolated to all those I loved, Matthew 10:36
- that Christians are called to come out from among those in the world and to touch not the unclean thing, 2 Corinthians 6:17
- and that a little leaven (sin) will (sooner or later) leaven (corrupt) the whole loaf (person, city, nation or world), Galatians 5:9, Matthew 16:12
- our sinfulness postpones the judgement day and extends the time of their evil among us, Matt 13:28-29
- all sin and guilt are chosen by our free will, not forced upon us by anything and is an enslaving addiction, John 8:34, Romans 6:16. Addiction to the strongest drugs is a perfect metaphor for the growing addiction to evil and the necessary steps taken to deal with it within the family.

My conclusions:
Sin starts small in some people and grows slowly but without Christ it is inevitable that their sin will grow into the evil we now only associate with Satan and demons. We are called to separate from these people or to stay corrupted by them causing suffering to be extended until we are done with them. In other words, the suffering we see, feel and cause finally outweighs our sympathy and empathy for every sinner then extends to the sinners we love until we are done with it, willing to leave it all to GOD and follow HIM trusting that HE is doing the best no matter what it means. If we are HIS, we will be heaven ready and fully holy (dedicated to HIS methods) when the last good seed fully repents and the judgement day starts.

Suffering is the reason we slowly become ready for GOD to intervene and which makes us ready for justice to be brought to those causing the suffering even if we love them. From struggling to help, to tough love, to giving up and letting GOD do what needs to be done is quite usual. Love them all you can but leave them to GOD we must.

[ttruscott]

Ok but for that to be true, God would have to somehow change my emotions.

I know...hang onto your hat!

A look at the meaning of scourge in the homily on discipline, Heb 12:5-11 might be useful.

[Topaz27]

I think it's very important to note the radically different views about death/what happens after death, even though the views are all technically christian. It's extremely interesting to me that all of these views came from basically the same book. (and yes I know there are different versions, but let's be honest they're all so incredibly similar) I think it also shows that no one really knows what happens after death.

ttruscott: I don't believe in sin, good, or evil. I think they're just labels that we put on things that we deem important.

onewithhim: Yeah it's a really interesting thing to think about.

Jehovah's Witness: I kinda agree with you. I think we should feel whatever comes. Think mainly in facts. And then act in between (with a heavy emphasis on facts) Also I hope you have a great weekend too

[Avoice]

The truth of the hereafter is that no one knows. We have been told this:

"For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him."

I dont think Christians really want to go to 'heaven.' Because it is assumed we will be in God's presence there. If they wanted to be with God they have that chance now. If they wanted to obey him they gave that chance now. If they wanted to worship Him they have that chance now. But they wont approach God. They put someone between them and God: A man from Nazareth called Jesus. It is he they turn to. It is he they worship. It is he who is the one their holidays celebrate. It is he whose words they listen to.

I don't know what the afterlife amount to. But wherever God is a Christian would be miserable there. They dobt want to be with him here so why should they want him later. What they want is to not die. They just want God to spare their life They dont care to hang out with him. Yeah...I know... Jesus is God therefore what i say isnt true. The truth is that the only way the early Christisns were able to believe in Jesus was to convince them that he was God on earth.
But God (called "THE FATHER") is no part of Christianity. He name and reputations is simply used to lead people wsy from him. Christianity is about worshipping a man. No Christian today would believe in jesus if they didbt believe he was God or some demi god. That was abd us a necessary component of the religion. God is used not worshipped.