Jesus declared OFFICIALLY he was God

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Saber Bob
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Jesus declared OFFICIALLY he was God

Post #1

Post by Saber Bob »

Never mind the 19 centuries separation of the composition of the NT and quibbling, supposed expert vs. supposed expert over the Koine Greek words. Let's also, for the moment ignore that the Early Church Fathers all supported Jesus' full Divinity when they were FAR closer in time, language, and continuity than any original or neo Arians (and if anyone c&p from Should You Believe in the Trinity?, be prepared to be enlightened).

Jesus even outside the "very late written" Gospel of John manifestly declared full Divinity, Co-Equal with the Father.

Mark 14:61-64, Jesus before the High Priest Caiphas. Caiphas asks Jesus flat out, commands Jesus to say flat out if he is the Messiah, the anointed deliverer of Israel.

Guess what ya'all, it is not blasphemous to falsely claim to be the Messiah, certainly not to the extent of being condemned to death. It would earn you a flogging and expulsion from the Temple and synagogues, but only a few crimes in Judaism warranted death.

Caiphas in his office as High Priest commands Jesus to say yes or no to claiming Messiah status...and Christ's answer is far more than Caiphas or anyone else expected...

Jesus not only says yes but adds in he's the Son of Man in context to Daniel 7, sitting on a throne at the right hand of the Ancient of Days (God) = claiming co- equality with God. Jesus also says they (the generation in the room, so no later than 40 years) will witness Jesus, the Son of Man return in judgement "on clouds", an OT term ONLY used in connection with YWVH, though it is done through human agencies vs. God's enemies: both the Assyrians and Babylonian armies against Egypt and the Medes and Persians against Babylon. The youngest Sadducees and Pharisees in that room would see Jesus prophecy come true, Jesus as God in judgement upon clouds (even on a cloudless day) using Vespasian's and Titus' legions to utterly destroy the Old Covenant world by the annihilation of the Temple.

Caiphas and everyone else in the room "gets it". Jesus has in a Jewish understanding claimed full Deity. Caiphas breaks ritual law, rends his garment, the blasphemy is so explicit, so we'll witnessed, the illegality of the night time court is moot. If Nicodemus or Joseph of Arimithea are there, they say nothing, not can they. The only thing that remains is to convince Pilate...

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Re: Jesus declared OFFICIALLY he was God

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by Saber Bob]

So Caiphas asks Jesus if he is the Messiah and Jesus confirms he is and this you see as a flat out admission to being Equal to Almighty God? Most people would taks Jesus admitting to being the Messiah, the promised one of God to mean he was .... the Messiah, the promised one of God and not God himself.

What next?! Admitting to being President amounts to declaring yourself King?
The Messiah was never considered to be equal to Almighty God YHWH the Father. Your reasoning seems strangley warped to me.



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Post #3

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Re: Jesus declared OFFICIALLY he was God

Post #4

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by Saber Bob]

DANIEL
  • The title "Son of Man" has never been attibuted in scripture to Almighty God YHWH, indeed the very human Prophet Daniel was thus called in scripture many times, so there would have been no reason to conclude that it referednto someone equal jn power, authority and position to God the Father.
  • Sitting at someones right hand does not denote equality of power and position but rather a favored position of privilege (we have a similar expression in modern English, someones "right hand man" is a privileged assistant not an equal.
  • Jesus freely admitted his authority was given or attributed to him from his father, this would include his authority to jugde. Almighty God cannot be given additional power or authoirty since that would mean he was subordinate to the giver.
Go to other posts related to ...

GOD, JESUS and ...THE TRINITY
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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marco
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Re: Jesus declared OFFICIALLY he was God

Post #5

Post by marco »

Saber Bob wrote:
The only thing that remains is to convince Pilate...
One would have thought with divine qualifications, the task of "convincing Pilate" would be rather easy. He perhaps displayed naivety to Pilate and perhaps a certain innocence but not divinity.

Jesus preferred to keep his status a secret. If he wished people to believe he was God the simplest of formulae would be: "I am God" rather than the "son of God" which can pertain to any pious person.

That pious or well-intentioned people might mistake him for God is hardly proof he was.

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Re: Jesus declared OFFICIALLY he was God

Post #6

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 1 by Saber Bob]

Do you realize that Judaism never considered the Messiah to be God? Do you realize there were more than a few false Messiah's running around first century Palestine? Were they all crucified for the claim? Or stoned?

And making a false claim is not blasphemy. It may be false witness, or delusion, but it is not blasphemy.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Jesus declared OFFICIALLY he was God

Post #7

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Saber Bob wrote: Caiphas and everyone else in the room "gets it". ...
And Hitler got what was and was not anti-Semitism

Caiphas is depicted as a thoroughly corrupt dishonest ringleader who evidently wasn't about to let law or scripture get in the way of a good hanging. One might be wise not to let moral perverts bent on murder indicate the correct interpretation of scripture

When someone says "Trust me on this, I wouldnt lie to you" one does well first assess if the person is a liar.


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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

Saber Bob
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Post #8

Post by Saber Bob »

Anyone thought to consider that mainstream Judaism's interpretations of who and what the Messiah would be, were wrong?

The Dead Sea scrolls certainly show there were alternative Messiah interpretations. Jesus told the scribes and Pharisees he was right there in the Tanach and they couldn't see him there.

Caiphas and everyone in the room got it. Neo Arians, like the scribes and Pharisees will fully won't.

Even claiming exaulted being status wouldn't get you condemned to death. Claiming you were God, makes absolute sense that Jewish officials would do such a thing, to render their kangaroo court legitimate by an obvious declaration of blasphemy.

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Re: Jesus declared OFFICIALLY he was God

Post #9

Post by Saber Bob »

[Replying to post 5 by marco]

Marco,

To convince Pilate Jesus was a threat to Rome's rule . Pilate could (and did) care less about Jesus claiming some otherworldly status.

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