JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[tam]

Peace again to you,

(...)

I think you should try a little harder to be consistent in your comments... You can't deny the need of the Bible to know God and Jesus, and at the same time make up a jesus from the Bible... exactly as I describe in my previous comment. Much less can you if you preach that the Bible contains errors.

Obviously you are inventing a jesus to suit you, and extract from the Bible only what suits your imaginary personal idea. There is not jesus for each liking in the world, so stop preaching that everyone can be independent and get their own version of God.

In addition to everything else you have said about me, now you are also lying about me.

Where did I "preach" that "everyone can be independent and get their own version of God"?

There is only one that is real; the one in the Bible, and he is represented on earth right now by his brothers (Matt. 25:31-40).

The One True God is the God and Father of Christ. Many things are written about Him in the bible, but His Son reveals Him to us. His Son is His Truth. God (the God and Father of Christ) is represented by His Son, His living Word and Image. If we know Christ, we know His Father also.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Eloi]

I don't lie ... and probably you are not aware of the implications of what you write here.

(...) KNOWING God and His Son means eternal life.

Not knowing ABOUT...

Not reading the bible...

Not doing a bible study with a religious group (regardless of which religous group)...

Not joining a religion (regardless of the religion)...


KNOWING God and His Son mean eternal life.

"Taking in knowledge" gives a different meaning than "knowing".


I know that Joe Biden is the President of the Unites States. I can look up and read many facts about Joe Biden. That does not mean that I know Joe Biden on a personal level; it does not mean that he knows me; and it certainly does not mean that I am in union with him.

Are you another ex-JW?

I am not. Just because someone disagrees with you and your religion does not mean that they are an ex-jw.


Peace again to you.

I am wondering why do you hate us that much, that everytime that you respond to a post you include an accusation against the JWs.

A person who is accusing all the time good persons, is not a friend of Jesus.

[tam]

Peace to you.

(...)

More of your anti-witness hatred. More off topics ...

So when you point out that the trinity is false, is that just 'anti-trinitarian' hatred?

When the jw religion points out something false in, say, the Catholic religion... is that just 'anti-catholic hatred'?



Peace still...

[Eloi]

Peace to you.

(...)

More of your anti-witness hatred. More off topics ...

So when you point out that the trinity is false, is that just 'anti-trinitarian' hatred?

When the jw religion points out something false in, say, the Catholic religion... is that just 'anti-catholic hatred'?



Peace still...

I do talk about ideas, you are talking against good persons. A person who makes an enemy without cause of millions of good persons is not a good person.

[tam]

Peace again to you,

Peace to you.

(...)

More of your anti-witness hatred. More off topics ...

So when you point out that the trinity is false, is that just 'anti-trinitarian' hatred?

When the jw religion points out something false in, say, the Catholic religion... is that just 'anti-catholic hatred'?



Peace still...

I do talk about ideas, you are talking against good persons. A person who makes an enemy without cause of millions of good persons is not a good person.

I think you might want to take another look at your posts directed to me.

As for your claim about what I am doing, please provide an example of what you mean.

You might also want to remember that the thing that started this whole spiel is that I said all translations contain some scribal errors, including the NWT. I singled nothing out there; even said sometimes it is more accurate than others and sometimes others are more accurate than it.


Peace again to you.

[kjw47]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

This is what inspired means:

2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

These are things Paul said scripture is good for. This is not a definition of inspired.

Obviously something that has mistakes on it cann't be useful to any of that, because it would be impossible to generate what it is supposed to generate according with what it's said there.

By that logic, the bible would be useless because the bible has mistakes. Scribal errors. You know this. Such as with the word 'hell'. But you can discover at least some of those mistakes by looking at the original language or examining the context.

When it comes to Paul (or any other person), we also have a test to know if something is in error (or perhaps translated in error). We have the TRUTH to test all things against, the LIGHT that we can hold all things up against. That Truth... that LIGHT... is Christ Jaheshua. Testing against Him, holding all things up to Him, is what I do and that is what my Father in heaven has taught me to do (This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Listen to Him.)

Men do not have to be (and are not) perfect for us to know and follow the Truth. The bible does not have to be (and is not) perfect for us to know and follow the Truth.

Christ is the One who is the Truth, the One to whom we are to listen, the One who has the words of eternal life, the One who speaks and leads His sheep into all truth.

Check how Peter consider the inspiration of the Bible:

2 Pet. 1:20 For YOU know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.

You can see how first century Christians understood that in these examples:

Acts 1:16 (...) the holy spirit spoke prophetically through David about Judas (...)

... 4:24 (...) “Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant: ‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? ..."

Yes.

Did you notice in my previous post that I stated the prophets were inspired. "The Word of God came to..." (whomever the prophet was at that time).


Question for you: was the Governing Body of the JW religion 'inspired' when its members interpreted that you should not do as Christ commanded (regarding eating and drinking)? Did they receive that as the prophets received the Word of God or did they simply interpret according to their own reasoning? Because their teaching is nowhere to be found in what is written, not from Christ, not from the apostles, and not from Paul.

Some of you call me to task for listening to Christ (the TRUE Word of God) first and foremost, but you don't even listen to the thing that you think is the word of God. You listen to an interpretation of that book (an interpretation that is from men). Can you not see anything wrong with that?

God's inspiration on His written word makes it so inerrant and secure that even angels want to interpret it to discover things on it:

1 Pet. 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for you made a diligent inquiry and a careful search. 11 They kept on investigating what particular time or what season the spirit within them was indicating concerning Christ as it testified beforehand about the sufferings meant for Christ and about the glory that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were ministering, not to themselves, but to you, regarding what has now been announced to you by those who declared the good news to you with holy spirit sent from heaven. Into these very things, angels are desiring to peer.

Jesus considered it so accurate that he used it even when he faced Satan when he wanted to tempt him in the desert, not just once, but all three times he responded.

He also said 'woe to you scribes'. He also admonished people for studying the scriptures diligently thinking that they have eternal life in the scriptures, but that these are the scriptures that testify to HIM... and yet the people refused to come to HIM to have life. John 5:39-40

Jesus considered it THE TRUTH (John 17:17) and told the Pharisees that no one could disavow it.

I am sorry but no, that is incorrect. Christ is the Truth (including the truth at John 17:17). Christ - not the bible - is the One who sanctifies us, makes us clean in HIS blood, saves us, gives us LIFE.

In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11For both the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.


Who is the author of our salvation?

Who is the ONE who sanctifies us?

Christ.

Not the bible. Not even the scriptures. The scriptures POINT to the One who sanctifies us: the true and living Word of God, Christ Jaheshua.


Peace again to you,
your servant and slave of Christ,
tammy

Reality= At John 1:1 in the Greek Lexicons-the true God called Ho Theos=God--the word called plain Theos= god. It was the whole reason of the difference of what one was being called. The only word in Greek for either God or god is Theos--thus when 2 different beings are spoken of in the same paragraph-the true God got HoTheos--like at 2 Cor 4:4
You claim to follow Jesus but refuse to believe him-John 20:17, Rev 3:12

I am going to have to assume that you did not fully read my post. I have to assume this because your response has nothing to do with anything I have said. Perhaps you are mixing me up with someone else? Because I have never said that Christ is God (YHWH). Christ is the SON of God.


Peace again to you.

My apologies if i misread the post Tam.

No problem. But did you read the post? I ask because you do not appear to have responded to the content in that post.

The bible contains Gods truth. Certain translations are altered.

The bible contains some truth. But all translations have been altered.

You know that translations other than the NWT are altered because of the way the word 'hell' is used. I don't think I need to expound upon that to you. But the NWT is altered as well. For instance, the translation of John 17:3 used to read (in the NWT) "this means life, their taking in knowledge of you..." When I did a bible study with jws (about twenty years ago), this was the translation, and the jw woman who studied with me even said that I was doing what was needed by learning ABOUT "Jehovah" (via the bible). But that rendering does not convey the meaning.

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and [Jesus] Christ whom you have sent.

Not just 'take in knowledge of' ... aka... 'learning about'... but to actually know (and be known), having union with, being one with.

Christ says the same of His sheep: that He knows His sheep and His sheep know Him:

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep."

Did Christ know about His sheep, or did He know them? Did Christ know about His Father, or did He KNOW His Father? Did the Father take in knowledge about the Son, or did the Father KNOW the Son?


Of some, Christ also said "I never knew you." Does that mean He did not know about them? Or does that mean He never knew them, they were never in Him, there had never been union between them and Him?


In some places the NWT is more accurate than other versions; and in other places other versions are more accurate than the NWT. None of them are perfect, none of them are without scribal error.

The true Word of God is Christ.



Peace again to you.

The only way one can know Jehovah is by taking in knowledge of him.

One can know God (JAH) by knowing His Son.

"If you know me, you know my Father also."

"No one knows the Father except the Son, and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him."

So the rendering had the same meaning. Gods knows all. He knows how many hairs are on each ones head. Jesus is theway, the truth and the life=obeying everything he taught. And he teaches--Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God=OT-NT, years and years of study it never stops.

You can study about someone all day long, year after year after year... it does not mean that you know that person. It also does not mean that you have union with them (them in you, you in them).

And this is the point.

"Taking in knowledge" does not give a person the same understanding as KNOWING someone gives (having union with them; them in you and you in them). People (jw or otherwise) can study the bible continuously and still not know either the Father or the Son. Just as the Jews studied their scriptures diligently, but did not recognize or know the Messiah when He was standing right in front of them, speaking to them in person.

They spent all that time studying the scriptures thinking that in them they had eternal life < - and that is what your translation is suggesting people do to have eternal life, but Christ said that is NOT how one receives eternal life. One must come to HIM for that life. (John 5:39-40)


So why translate the verse from 'knowing' - to - 'taking in knowledge'? Knowing means much much more than merely 'taking in knowledge'.

Nice to see one that knows the need of spirituality in their life.

Christ is the Spirit (2Corinthians 3:18 is speaking about Christ as the Lord). God is also spirit. I know that I need (and love) Christ and His Father (I know also that they loved me first). Christ also said that the kind of worshipers that the Father desires are those who worship in spirit and in truth, right? Spirituality is part and parcel of worshiping them, knowing them, being in them (and them in us).

And it also nice to meet a jw who does not think of spirituality as something bad. So thank you for that.

The NWT corrected the errors, it is in harmony. Trinity translations teach 2 different Gods and 2 different truths.

They all have some errors, and there is often something lost in translation from one language to another (more so when going from one language to another, then to another from the second language). I do not particularly care which version is on hand. Using bible.hub is an easy way to compare different translations, and the NWT is easily accessed online as well. Blue letter bible is a simple place to check out the original language and various ways a certain word has been translated. But Christ is the One who is my Lord, my Teacher, my Shepherd, the true and living Word of God.

Even if there was a version of the bible copied exactly right (there is not), that version would still be prone to the errors of the men INTERPRETING those texts, misleading the people who are listening to those men instead of to Christ Himself.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

God assured all at Daniel 12:4 that in these last days truth would become abundant. That was accomplished by translating being corrected( nwt) and errors taught through the centuries were corrected as well.

[kjw47]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

This is what inspired means:

2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

These are things Paul said scripture is good for. This is not a definition of inspired.

Obviously something that has mistakes on it cann't be useful to any of that, because it would be impossible to generate what it is supposed to generate according with what it's said there.

By that logic, the bible would be useless because the bible has mistakes. Scribal errors. You know this. Such as with the word 'hell'. But you can discover at least some of those mistakes by looking at the original language or examining the context.

When it comes to Paul (or any other person), we also have a test to know if something is in error (or perhaps translated in error). We have the TRUTH to test all things against, the LIGHT that we can hold all things up against. That Truth... that LIGHT... is Christ Jaheshua. Testing against Him, holding all things up to Him, is what I do and that is what my Father in heaven has taught me to do (This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Listen to Him.)

Men do not have to be (and are not) perfect for us to know and follow the Truth. The bible does not have to be (and is not) perfect for us to know and follow the Truth.

Christ is the One who is the Truth, the One to whom we are to listen, the One who has the words of eternal life, the One who speaks and leads His sheep into all truth.

Check how Peter consider the inspiration of the Bible:

2 Pet. 1:20 For YOU know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.

You can see how first century Christians understood that in these examples:

Acts 1:16 (...) the holy spirit spoke prophetically through David about Judas (...)

... 4:24 (...) “Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant: ‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? ..."

Yes.

Did you notice in my previous post that I stated the prophets were inspired. "The Word of God came to..." (whomever the prophet was at that time).


Question for you: was the Governing Body of the JW religion 'inspired' when its members interpreted that you should not do as Christ commanded (regarding eating and drinking)? Did they receive that as the prophets received the Word of God or did they simply interpret according to their own reasoning? Because their teaching is nowhere to be found in what is written, not from Christ, not from the apostles, and not from Paul.

Some of you call me to task for listening to Christ (the TRUE Word of God) first and foremost, but you don't even listen to the thing that you think is the word of God. You listen to an interpretation of that book (an interpretation that is from men). Can you not see anything wrong with that?

God's inspiration on His written word makes it so inerrant and secure that even angels want to interpret it to discover things on it:

1 Pet. 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the undeserved kindness meant for you made a diligent inquiry and a careful search. 11 They kept on investigating what particular time or what season the spirit within them was indicating concerning Christ as it testified beforehand about the sufferings meant for Christ and about the glory that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were ministering, not to themselves, but to you, regarding what has now been announced to you by those who declared the good news to you with holy spirit sent from heaven. Into these very things, angels are desiring to peer.

Jesus considered it so accurate that he used it even when he faced Satan when he wanted to tempt him in the desert, not just once, but all three times he responded.

He also said 'woe to you scribes'. He also admonished people for studying the scriptures diligently thinking that they have eternal life in the scriptures, but that these are the scriptures that testify to HIM... and yet the people refused to come to HIM to have life. John 5:39-40

Jesus considered it THE TRUTH (John 17:17) and told the Pharisees that no one could disavow it.

I am sorry but no, that is incorrect. Christ is the Truth (including the truth at John 17:17). Christ - not the bible - is the One who sanctifies us, makes us clean in HIS blood, saves us, gives us LIFE.

In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11For both the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.


Who is the author of our salvation?

Who is the ONE who sanctifies us?

Christ.

Not the bible. Not even the scriptures. The scriptures POINT to the One who sanctifies us: the true and living Word of God, Christ Jaheshua.


Peace again to you,
your servant and slave of Christ,
tammy

Reality= At John 1:1 in the Greek Lexicons-the true God called Ho Theos=God--the word called plain Theos= god. It was the whole reason of the difference of what one was being called. The only word in Greek for either God or god is Theos--thus when 2 different beings are spoken of in the same paragraph-the true God got HoTheos--like at 2 Cor 4:4
You claim to follow Jesus but refuse to believe him-John 20:17, Rev 3:12

I am going to have to assume that you did not fully read my post. I have to assume this because your response has nothing to do with anything I have said. Perhaps you are mixing me up with someone else? Because I have never said that Christ is God (YHWH). Christ is the SON of God.


Peace again to you.

My apologies if i misread the post Tam.

No problem. But did you read the post? I ask because you do not appear to have responded to the content in that post.

The bible contains Gods truth. Certain translations are altered.

The bible contains some truth. But all translations have been altered.

You know that translations other than the NWT are altered because of the way the word 'hell' is used. I don't think I need to expound upon that to you. But the NWT is altered as well. For instance, the translation of John 17:3 used to read (in the NWT) "this means life, their taking in knowledge of you..." When I did a bible study with jws (about twenty years ago), this was the translation, and the jw woman who studied with me even said that I was doing what was needed by learning ABOUT "Jehovah" (via the bible). But that rendering does not convey the meaning.

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and [Jesus] Christ whom you have sent.

Not just 'take in knowledge of' ... aka... 'learning about'... but to actually know (and be known), having union with, being one with.

Christ says the same of His sheep: that He knows His sheep and His sheep know Him:

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep."

Did Christ know about His sheep, or did He know them? Did Christ know about His Father, or did He KNOW His Father? Did the Father take in knowledge about the Son, or did the Father KNOW the Son?


Of some, Christ also said "I never knew you." Does that mean He did not know about them? Or does that mean He never knew them, they were never in Him, there had never been union between them and Him?


In some places the NWT is more accurate than other versions; and in other places other versions are more accurate than the NWT. None of them are perfect, none of them are without scribal error.

The true Word of God is Christ.



Peace again to you.

The only way one can know Jehovah is by taking in knowledge of him.

One can know God (JAH) by knowing His Son.

"If you know me, you know my Father also."

"No one knows the Father except the Son, and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him."

So the rendering had the same meaning. Gods knows all. He knows how many hairs are on each ones head. Jesus is theway, the truth and the life=obeying everything he taught. And he teaches--Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God=OT-NT, years and years of study it never stops.

You can study about someone all day long, year after year after year... it does not mean that you know that person. It also does not mean that you have union with them (them in you, you in them).

And this is the point.

"Taking in knowledge" does not give a person the same understanding as KNOWING someone gives (having union with them; them in you and you in them). People (jw or otherwise) can study the bible continuously and still not know either the Father or the Son. Just as the Jews studied their scriptures diligently, but did not recognize or know the Messiah when He was standing right in front of them, speaking to them in person.

They spent all that time studying the scriptures thinking that in them they had eternal life < - and that is what your translation is suggesting people do to have eternal life, but Christ said that is NOT how one receives eternal life. One must come to HIM for that life. (John 5:39-40)


So why translate the verse from 'knowing' - to - 'taking in knowledge'? Knowing means much much more than merely 'taking in knowledge'.

Nice to see one that knows the need of spirituality in their life.

Christ is the Spirit (2Corinthians 3:18 is speaking about Christ as the Lord). God is also spirit. I know that I need (and love) Christ and His Father (I know also that they loved me first). Christ also said that the kind of worshipers that the Father desires are those who worship in spirit and in truth, right? Spirituality is part and parcel of worshiping them, knowing them, being in them (and them in us).

And it also nice to meet a jw who does not think of spirituality as something bad. So thank you for that.

The NWT corrected the errors, it is in harmony. Trinity translations teach 2 different Gods and 2 different truths.

They all have some errors, and there is often something lost in translation from one language to another (more so when going from one language to another, then to another from the second language). I do not particularly care which version is on hand. Using bible.hub is an easy way to compare different translations, and the NWT is easily accessed online as well. Blue letter bible is a simple place to check out the original language and various ways a certain word has been translated. But Christ is the One who is my Lord, my Teacher, my Shepherd, the true and living Word of God.

Even if there was a version of the bible copied exactly right (there is not), that version would still be prone to the errors of the men INTERPRETING those texts, misleading the people who are listening to those men instead of to Christ Himself.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Yes one can know much by looking at Jesus,

Why do you lessen His words like that?

One can (and does) know God (JAH) by knowing Christ.

Know Christ, know His Father also. See Christ, see His Father also.

Maybe you don't realize you are lessening His words, but that is what you are doing.

but the OT is filled with much knowledge of the true God as well.

Please see the previous post (quoted and bolded just above).

Do you listen to Jesus? --Matt 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking- FIRST- the kingdom and his( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)--Luke 10:16 assures there are teachers on earth appointed by Jesus-these-Matt 24:45--One must be taught by them.

And what of Christ's words?

But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

At Luke 10:16, Christ is speaking TO His disciples. He has sent His disciples out to bear witness to Him, and if someone accepts them, then that is the same as accepting Him. If someone rejects them, that is the same as rejecting Him. He is not telling us that we they have to listen to other men as our teachers. Catholics (mis)use this same verse as well, to say that we have to listen to the RCC.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Yes teachers arent the correct usage-(Those taking the lead, that is what JW,s call them. Those appointed by Jesus.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,



These are things Paul said scripture is good for. This is not a definition of inspired.



By that logic, the bible would be useless because the bible has mistakes. Scribal errors. You know this. Such as with the word 'hell'. But you can discover at least some of those mistakes by looking at the original language or examining the context.

When it comes to Paul (or any other person), we also have a test to know if something is in error (or perhaps translated in error). We have the TRUTH to test all things against, the LIGHT that we can hold all things up against. That Truth... that LIGHT... is Christ Jaheshua. Testing against Him, holding all things up to Him, is what I do and that is what my Father in heaven has taught me to do (This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Listen to Him.)

Men do not have to be (and are not) perfect for us to know and follow the Truth. The bible does not have to be (and is not) perfect for us to know and follow the Truth.

Christ is the One who is the Truth, the One to whom we are to listen, the One who has the words of eternal life, the One who speaks and leads His sheep into all truth.



Yes.

Did you notice in my previous post that I stated the prophets were inspired. "The Word of God came to..." (whomever the prophet was at that time).


Question for you: was the Governing Body of the JW religion 'inspired' when its members interpreted that you should not do as Christ commanded (regarding eating and drinking)? Did they receive that as the prophets received the Word of God or did they simply interpret according to their own reasoning? Because their teaching is nowhere to be found in what is written, not from Christ, not from the apostles, and not from Paul.

Some of you call me to task for listening to Christ (the TRUE Word of God) first and foremost, but you don't even listen to the thing that you think is the word of God. You listen to an interpretation of that book (an interpretation that is from men). Can you not see anything wrong with that?



He also said 'woe to you scribes'. He also admonished people for studying the scriptures diligently thinking that they have eternal life in the scriptures, but that these are the scriptures that testify to HIM... and yet the people refused to come to HIM to have life. John 5:39-40




I am sorry but no, that is incorrect. Christ is the Truth (including the truth at John 17:17). Christ - not the bible - is the One who sanctifies us, makes us clean in HIS blood, saves us, gives us LIFE.

In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11For both the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.


Who is the author of our salvation?

Who is the ONE who sanctifies us?

Christ.

Not the bible. Not even the scriptures. The scriptures POINT to the One who sanctifies us: the true and living Word of God, Christ Jaheshua.


Peace again to you,
your servant and slave of Christ,
tammy

Reality= At John 1:1 in the Greek Lexicons-the true God called Ho Theos=God--the word called plain Theos= god. It was the whole reason of the difference of what one was being called. The only word in Greek for either God or god is Theos--thus when 2 different beings are spoken of in the same paragraph-the true God got HoTheos--like at 2 Cor 4:4
You claim to follow Jesus but refuse to believe him-John 20:17, Rev 3:12

I am going to have to assume that you did not fully read my post. I have to assume this because your response has nothing to do with anything I have said. Perhaps you are mixing me up with someone else? Because I have never said that Christ is God (YHWH). Christ is the SON of God.


Peace again to you.

My apologies if i misread the post Tam.

No problem. But did you read the post? I ask because you do not appear to have responded to the content in that post.

The bible contains Gods truth. Certain translations are altered.

The bible contains some truth. But all translations have been altered.

You know that translations other than the NWT are altered because of the way the word 'hell' is used. I don't think I need to expound upon that to you. But the NWT is altered as well. For instance, the translation of John 17:3 used to read (in the NWT) "this means life, their taking in knowledge of you..." When I did a bible study with jws (about twenty years ago), this was the translation, and the jw woman who studied with me even said that I was doing what was needed by learning ABOUT "Jehovah" (via the bible). But that rendering does not convey the meaning.

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and [Jesus] Christ whom you have sent.

Not just 'take in knowledge of' ... aka... 'learning about'... but to actually know (and be known), having union with, being one with.

Christ says the same of His sheep: that He knows His sheep and His sheep know Him:

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep."

Did Christ know about His sheep, or did He know them? Did Christ know about His Father, or did He KNOW His Father? Did the Father take in knowledge about the Son, or did the Father KNOW the Son?


Of some, Christ also said "I never knew you." Does that mean He did not know about them? Or does that mean He never knew them, they were never in Him, there had never been union between them and Him?


In some places the NWT is more accurate than other versions; and in other places other versions are more accurate than the NWT. None of them are perfect, none of them are without scribal error.

The true Word of God is Christ.



Peace again to you.

The only way one can know Jehovah is by taking in knowledge of him.

One can know God (JAH) by knowing His Son.

"If you know me, you know my Father also."

"No one knows the Father except the Son, and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him."

So the rendering had the same meaning. Gods knows all. He knows how many hairs are on each ones head. Jesus is theway, the truth and the life=obeying everything he taught. And he teaches--Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God=OT-NT, years and years of study it never stops.

You can study about someone all day long, year after year after year... it does not mean that you know that person. It also does not mean that you have union with them (them in you, you in them).

And this is the point.

"Taking in knowledge" does not give a person the same understanding as KNOWING someone gives (having union with them; them in you and you in them). People (jw or otherwise) can study the bible continuously and still not know either the Father or the Son. Just as the Jews studied their scriptures diligently, but did not recognize or know the Messiah when He was standing right in front of them, speaking to them in person.

They spent all that time studying the scriptures thinking that in them they had eternal life < - and that is what your translation is suggesting people do to have eternal life, but Christ said that is NOT how one receives eternal life. One must come to HIM for that life. (John 5:39-40)


So why translate the verse from 'knowing' - to - 'taking in knowledge'? Knowing means much much more than merely 'taking in knowledge'.

Nice to see one that knows the need of spirituality in their life.

Christ is the Spirit (2Corinthians 3:18 is speaking about Christ as the Lord). God is also spirit. I know that I need (and love) Christ and His Father (I know also that they loved me first). Christ also said that the kind of worshipers that the Father desires are those who worship in spirit and in truth, right? Spirituality is part and parcel of worshiping them, knowing them, being in them (and them in us).

And it also nice to meet a jw who does not think of spirituality as something bad. So thank you for that.

The NWT corrected the errors, it is in harmony. Trinity translations teach 2 different Gods and 2 different truths.

They all have some errors, and there is often something lost in translation from one language to another (more so when going from one language to another, then to another from the second language). I do not particularly care which version is on hand. Using bible.hub is an easy way to compare different translations, and the NWT is easily accessed online as well. Blue letter bible is a simple place to check out the original language and various ways a certain word has been translated. But Christ is the One who is my Lord, my Teacher, my Shepherd, the true and living Word of God.

Even if there was a version of the bible copied exactly right (there is not), that version would still be prone to the errors of the men INTERPRETING those texts, misleading the people who are listening to those men instead of to Christ Himself.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Yes one can know much by looking at Jesus,

Why do you lessen His words like that?

One can (and does) know God (JAH) by knowing Christ.

Know Christ, know His Father also. See Christ, see His Father also.

Maybe you don't realize you are lessening His words, but that is what you are doing.

but the OT is filled with much knowledge of the true God as well.

Please see the previous post (quoted and bolded just above).

Do you listen to Jesus? --Matt 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking- FIRST- the kingdom and his( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)--Luke 10:16 assures there are teachers on earth appointed by Jesus-these-Matt 24:45--One must be taught by them.

And what of Christ's words?

But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

At Luke 10:16, Christ is speaking TO His disciples. He has sent His disciples out to bear witness to Him, and if someone accepts them, then that is the same as accepting Him. If someone rejects them, that is the same as rejecting Him. He is not telling us that we they have to listen to other men as our teachers. Catholics (mis)use this same verse as well, to say that we have to listen to the RCC.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Yes teachers arent the correct usage-(Those taking the lead, that is what JW,s call them. Those appointed by Jesus.

Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. Matt 23:10 (NWT)


Peace again to you.

[kjw47]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Reality= At John 1:1 in the Greek Lexicons-the true God called Ho Theos=God--the word called plain Theos= god. It was the whole reason of the difference of what one was being called. The only word in Greek for either God or god is Theos--thus when 2 different beings are spoken of in the same paragraph-the true God got HoTheos--like at 2 Cor 4:4
You claim to follow Jesus but refuse to believe him-John 20:17, Rev 3:12

I am going to have to assume that you did not fully read my post. I have to assume this because your response has nothing to do with anything I have said. Perhaps you are mixing me up with someone else? Because I have never said that Christ is God (YHWH). Christ is the SON of God.


Peace again to you.

My apologies if i misread the post Tam.

No problem. But did you read the post? I ask because you do not appear to have responded to the content in that post.

The bible contains Gods truth. Certain translations are altered.

The bible contains some truth. But all translations have been altered.

You know that translations other than the NWT are altered because of the way the word 'hell' is used. I don't think I need to expound upon that to you. But the NWT is altered as well. For instance, the translation of John 17:3 used to read (in the NWT) "this means life, their taking in knowledge of you..." When I did a bible study with jws (about twenty years ago), this was the translation, and the jw woman who studied with me even said that I was doing what was needed by learning ABOUT "Jehovah" (via the bible). But that rendering does not convey the meaning.

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and [Jesus] Christ whom you have sent.

Not just 'take in knowledge of' ... aka... 'learning about'... but to actually know (and be known), having union with, being one with.

Christ says the same of His sheep: that He knows His sheep and His sheep know Him:

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep."

Did Christ know about His sheep, or did He know them? Did Christ know about His Father, or did He KNOW His Father? Did the Father take in knowledge about the Son, or did the Father KNOW the Son?


Of some, Christ also said "I never knew you." Does that mean He did not know about them? Or does that mean He never knew them, they were never in Him, there had never been union between them and Him?


In some places the NWT is more accurate than other versions; and in other places other versions are more accurate than the NWT. None of them are perfect, none of them are without scribal error.

The true Word of God is Christ.



Peace again to you.

The only way one can know Jehovah is by taking in knowledge of him.

One can know God (JAH) by knowing His Son.

"If you know me, you know my Father also."

"No one knows the Father except the Son, and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him."

So the rendering had the same meaning. Gods knows all. He knows how many hairs are on each ones head. Jesus is theway, the truth and the life=obeying everything he taught. And he teaches--Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God=OT-NT, years and years of study it never stops.

You can study about someone all day long, year after year after year... it does not mean that you know that person. It also does not mean that you have union with them (them in you, you in them).

And this is the point.

"Taking in knowledge" does not give a person the same understanding as KNOWING someone gives (having union with them; them in you and you in them). People (jw or otherwise) can study the bible continuously and still not know either the Father or the Son. Just as the Jews studied their scriptures diligently, but did not recognize or know the Messiah when He was standing right in front of them, speaking to them in person.

They spent all that time studying the scriptures thinking that in them they had eternal life < - and that is what your translation is suggesting people do to have eternal life, but Christ said that is NOT how one receives eternal life. One must come to HIM for that life. (John 5:39-40)


So why translate the verse from 'knowing' - to - 'taking in knowledge'? Knowing means much much more than merely 'taking in knowledge'.

Nice to see one that knows the need of spirituality in their life.

Christ is the Spirit (2Corinthians 3:18 is speaking about Christ as the Lord). God is also spirit. I know that I need (and love) Christ and His Father (I know also that they loved me first). Christ also said that the kind of worshipers that the Father desires are those who worship in spirit and in truth, right? Spirituality is part and parcel of worshiping them, knowing them, being in them (and them in us).

And it also nice to meet a jw who does not think of spirituality as something bad. So thank you for that.

The NWT corrected the errors, it is in harmony. Trinity translations teach 2 different Gods and 2 different truths.

They all have some errors, and there is often something lost in translation from one language to another (more so when going from one language to another, then to another from the second language). I do not particularly care which version is on hand. Using bible.hub is an easy way to compare different translations, and the NWT is easily accessed online as well. Blue letter bible is a simple place to check out the original language and various ways a certain word has been translated. But Christ is the One who is my Lord, my Teacher, my Shepherd, the true and living Word of God.

Even if there was a version of the bible copied exactly right (there is not), that version would still be prone to the errors of the men INTERPRETING those texts, misleading the people who are listening to those men instead of to Christ Himself.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Yes one can know much by looking at Jesus,

Why do you lessen His words like that?

One can (and does) know God (JAH) by knowing Christ.

Know Christ, know His Father also. See Christ, see His Father also.

Maybe you don't realize you are lessening His words, but that is what you are doing.

but the OT is filled with much knowledge of the true God as well.

Please see the previous post (quoted and bolded just above).

Do you listen to Jesus? --Matt 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking- FIRST- the kingdom and his( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)--Luke 10:16 assures there are teachers on earth appointed by Jesus-these-Matt 24:45--One must be taught by them.

And what of Christ's words?

But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

At Luke 10:16, Christ is speaking TO His disciples. He has sent His disciples out to bear witness to Him, and if someone accepts them, then that is the same as accepting Him. If someone rejects them, that is the same as rejecting Him. He is not telling us that we they have to listen to other men as our teachers. Catholics (mis)use this same verse as well, to say that we have to listen to the RCC.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Yes teachers arent the correct usage-(Those taking the lead, that is what JW,s call them. Those appointed by Jesus.

Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. Matt 23:10 (NWT)


Peace again to you.

Matt 24:45--These men are to be like the apostles. They took the lead in sharing truth. They trained others to take the lead in sharing Gods truth. No they arent the leaders, Jesus is head of the congregation, that makes up one flock, yet divided into 2 groups-The little flock( Luke 12:32) And the great crowd of other sheep who are not of that fold.) Rev 7:9-- John 10:16

[otseng]

I do talk about ideas, you are talking against good persons. A person who makes an enemy without cause of millions of good persons is not a good person.

Moderator Comment

On this forum, it doesn't matter what view a person holds. And on this forum, a person's goodness is not dependent on what they believe. You are free to debate ideas, but you are not free to judge another.

Please review the Rules.





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