JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1486]

The earth isn't totally decimated.

I agree that it will not be. For example, when the earth was described as without form, void, and dark; God did not start from scratch again -- He started by turning the light back on something that was without form and void, but already there.

It (the earth) just needs to have the wicked people that are ruining the earth expelled from the it, and then have God's people clean it up.

Why should God's people have to clean it up -- especially when God offers to.

If you had a beautiful house and rented it out to some people who trashed it, punching holes in the walls, breaking the windows, etc., would you tear the house down or would you get rid of the bad tenants?

I would get rid of the bad tenants and restore the house to a good condition quickly if I was God.

Revelation 11:18b mentions that God will "bring to ruin those ruining the earth." Why would God take vengeance on the wicked for messing up the earth if He was planning on destroying the earth and starting over anyway?

Man is the group which the earth should fear -- not God! In fact, God will intervene to save man from extinction on the earth due to man's abuse of the earth! Under man's rule and rebellion against God, the earth will reach a state of great tribulation:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (Matthew 24:21-22)

There is no reason to think that God will destroy the earth and the literal heavens.

None that I know of. But there has already been one re-creation, repair, restoration . . . or whatever one wants to call it of a very good earth which was decimated or highly abused by those assigned to care for it.

He wouldn't destroy all the billions of stars and galaxies to the ends of the universe! So we don't take it to mean total destruction where it says that there will be a "new heaven and a new earth."

Heavens could mean the atmosphere around the earth. If so, both the earth and its atmosphere are in danger from man's dominion over them at this very moment. And both could need a refurbishing very soon.

It doesn't say anywhere that God Himself will clean up the earth after Armageddon. He has honored us with the task, and it will be refreshing work since we will all have perfect bodies (Job 33:25) and won't tire out easily like we do now.

I like your word "refurbishing." That is indeed what will happen with the earth and its atmosphere, and they do indeed need it.

[onewithhim]

Actually, Christ came into the world to save people who are willing to care for and enjoy the beautiful material earth which God created, and do so as God commands.

Book, Chapter, Verse ---- please.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Genesis 1:28)

Matthew 22:30

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

I do not understand how there not being any marriage of beings in the Kingdom of God (as written in Matthew 22:30) has anything to do with what we are debating about in this thread.

If you do see any relevance, please explain it.

I'm merely demonstrating the inaccuracies in JW's dogma.

Then your post has absolute no relevance to me!

While I do not share your animosity against the JW's -- I am not a JW.

Your explanation does explain your seemingly random long lists of quoted verses.

How pathetic.

I back my beliefs with the scriptures as inspired by God.

I suggest that you locate a true JW who is proud of their dogma, to whom you can lose your debates!

Let me spell it out for you. You typed "Actually, Christ came into the world to save people who are willing to care for and enjoy the beautiful material earth which God created, and do so as God commands" And I asked you for a Book, Chapter, Verse response. And you provided a verse about multiplying in Genesis.

And the verse also stated the purpose for which mankind was created:

Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

God is seeking those humans who will obey His commands to replenish His earthly creations. We are being groomed to replace the angels who failed in this effort and abandoned their first estate.

And I do not have animosity towards JWs.

Yes, I can tell by your comments that some of your "dearest friends" are JW's.

And the verse I presented that was revealed later in the Bible says, marriage is for here and now and not for the hereafter. And I do have some Mormon acquaintances also. That doesn't mean that I cannot biblically disagree with them either...

Marriage is not for the angels or those that will reign with Christ in heaven. That is what Christ was referring to, not about the billions who will inherit the earth and live on it forever (Psalm 37:29). Those on Earth will be able to get married and have children. That does not agree with the Mormon view. Their idea of heaven does not harmonize with JWs' view.

[myth-one.com]

Marriage is not for the angels or those that will reign with Christ in heaven. That is what Christ was referring to, not about the billions who will inherit the earth and live on it forever (Psalm 37:29). Those on Earth will be able to get married and have children. That does not agree with the Mormon view. Their idea of heaven does not harmonize with JWs' view.

It doesn't agree with the Bible either!

After completion of the great white throne judgment every human being will have either been born again as a spiritual body or cast into the lake of fire and suffered the second death. Consequently, there will be no more physical human bodies and there never will be again after the last living human is either born again of the Spirit into everlasting spiritual life or cast into the lake of fire and suffers the second death!. Therefore, the age of man is over.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

All will have either everlasting life or everlasting death.

An immortal spiritual bodied life is not a human life. So those born again as spirits into everlasting life can no longer be identified as humans.

And a dead human body is not a living human. So those who perish cannot be identified as living humans.

Therefore, the only two options mentioned in John 3:16 are everlasting life or everlasting death. So, upon completion of judgment, rewards, and punishments; there are no longer any living humans.

Those on the earth will be spiritual bodied beings which were former humans who believed in Christ as their Savior. They have been born again of God into the Kingdom of God as spirits. God is a Spirit and those born of the Spirit are spirits. Thus, they have become children of God who will rule over the earth with the first Son of God. We will have become equal unto the angels who were first assigned to maintain the earth -- but we will have had a period of training as humans on the earth.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1503]

I keep telling you that there are a certain number of people who will be raised to heaven because they alone are "born again." They won't marry. But those of us on the earth will physically be able to have children and enjoy the planet just as God purposed in the beginning. "Flesh fresher than in youth," as Job wrote of the resurrection. (Job 33:25)

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1503]
I keep telling you that there are a certain number of people who will be raised to heaven because they alone are "born again." They won't marry. Those humans who live forever on the earth are not "born again" of the spirit, and they don't even wish to go to heaven.

Being born again of the Spirit has to do with gaining everlasting life -- not whether we go to heaven or remain on the earth.

You recently agreed that those Christians who will rule over the earth forever with Jesus are members of the Kingdom of God:

The ones on Earth are part of the Kingdom . . .

If that is the case, they cannot possibly remain as flesh and blood humans according to God, because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God:

And as we (all believers) have borne the image of the earthy (humans), we (believers) shall also bear the image of the heavenly (spiritual bodied beings). Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood (humans) cannot inherit the kingdom of God;... (I Corinthians 15:49-50)

So according to the scriptures, all believers, including those on the earth, must be born again of the Spirit as spirits to inherit the Kingdom of God and rule forever on the earth.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1505]

No, not all Christians need to be born again. Jesus said---NOT that a person needs to be born again to be SAVED---but that a person must be born again to inherit the Kingdom of God. (John 3:5) That kingdom is a government in heaven. That is where born-again people go, and there are only "a little flock" going there. (Luke 12:32) The people on earth are saved even though they are not born again.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1505]
No, not all Christians need to be born again. Jesus said---NOT that a person needs to be born again to be SAVED---but that a person must be born again to inherit the Kingdom of God. (John 3:5) That kingdom is a government in heaven. That is where born-again people go, and there are only "a little flock" going there. (Luke 12:32) The people on earth are saved even though they are not born again.

Everything God created was part of the Kingdom of God. But the earth has broken away and is no is no longer part of the Kingdom. We are instructed to pray for God's Kingdom to return to the earth. Here it is again:

Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10)

When that occurs, the earth will once again become incorporated into the Kingdom of God.

<=================== On being saved ======================>

There are two types of bodies, natural and spiritual. Natural bodies will die, but spiritual bodies have everlasting life.

All humans except Jesus sinned & are headed for the second death under the laws and rules set up by God under the Old Testament Covenant.

Since all but one human are headed for the second death in the lake of fire, there is only one possible answer to the question as to how can mankind negate the second death which is the wages for their sin.

<=================== Here's how we escape the second death =============>

Jesus is the only human who presently owns an inheritance of everlasting life. That is His reward for living a sinless life under the Old Covenant.

God allows Jesus to gift His inheritance of everlasting life to those humans who believe in Jesus as their Savior from the wages of their sins.

The only beings which have everlasting life are spiritual beings. If we can become spiritual beings we have everlasting life and no death, including the second death, applies to us. WE can frolic in the lake of fire if we so desire.

<================== How do we become spiritual beings? =======================>

By being born of the Spirit, because that which is born of the Spirit is a spirit:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

Do we know a Spirit? Yes, God is a Spirit:

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24)

So Christians become everlasting spiritual bodied beings upon being born again of the Spirit God, as a spirit, into the Kingdom of God, which is composed only of spirits, at or after the Second Coming.

Thus, being saved is synonymous with being born again of the Spirit and thus gaining everlasting life -- thanks to Jesus.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1507]

Being born again is not synonymous with being saved. The "little flock" of those going to heaven are the ones who must be born again so that they can enter heaven, the spirit realm. The "other sheep" of the billions who will live on the earth forever do not need to be born again (and they are saved as long as they acknowledge Jesus and his Father and what they ask us to do) and will enjoy life on earth in Paradise. That is why Jesus died, so that people could live on a beautiful, clean earth forever, having a good relationship with Jehovah, just as He purposed in the beginning (Genesis 1:28; 2:15). Jesus saw to it that Jehovah's will will be carried out. (Isaiah 55:11)

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1507]

Being born again is not synonymous with being saved. The "little flock" of those going to heaven are the ones who must be born again so that they can enter heaven, the spirit realm. The "other sheep" of the billions who will live on the earth forever do not need to be born again (and they are saved as long as they acknowledge Jesus and his Father and what they ask us to do) and will enjoy life on earth in Paradise. That is why Jesus died, so that people could live on a beautiful, clean earth forever, having a good relationship with Jehovah, just as He purposed in the beginning (Genesis 1:28; 2:15). Jesus saw to it that Jehovah's will will be carried out. (Isaiah 55:11)

No, Jesus died so that we might have everlasting life!

In John 3:16, Jesus states:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God inspired the scriptures, and according to the scriptures, God cannot lie:

Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Once given eternal or everlasting life, it can never be terminated as you claim. If everlasting life can be terminated, then it is not necessarily eternal -- and God lied when He described it as such!

I'll have to side with God on this one. I'll not risk calling Him a liar.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1509]

Of course Jesus died so that we could live forever. And what was God's will and purpose in the beginning? For humans to live on the earth forever, in paradise conditions. This purpose will not be thwarted. It is still God's will.

"God blessed them and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (Genesis 1:28, KJV)

"And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it." (Genesis 2:15, KJV)