Jesus Christ and Adolf Hitler

[SallyF]

Jehovah is at your right hand;
He will crush kings on the day of his wrath.
He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead
And crushing the rulers of the whole earth.
Psalm 110

For me, the possibly fictional Jesus character and the very real Hitler are VERY similar.

What are the similarities and differences may we find between them …?

[marco]

If we are to believe the end times visions of John the Revelator

Surely you can't impose this on anyone, Tcg. Grammatically it is called an impossible condition.

The odd difference between the two men is that in spite of the destruction Jesus will be bringing, he is viewed as a holy man, a man of peace. Hitler did less than what Jesus will do and he is viewed as a monster, a man of great evil and violence.

Why the double standard?

Because Hitler had devils round him while Jesus cast devils out.

I suppose people will claim that both saved humanity by their suicide, though the Jews - accused of wanting a curse on their kids - have nothing to thank either character for.

[Tcg]

If we are to believe the end times visions of John the Revelator

Surely you can't impose this on anyone, Tcg. Grammatically it is called an impossible condition.

I neither wrote the book nor approved its inclusion into the canon. Others bare that responsibility. It's absence wouldn't make a great difference. The Revelator simply fleshed out the details of the violence Jesus promised to bring.

Without him, we'd simply be left to wonder the nature of Jesus' violence. If Jesus is a man of his words, the violence is coming whether or not the Revelator was correct about the details.

The odd difference between the two men is that in spite of the destruction Jesus will be bringing, he is viewed as a holy man, a man of peace. Hitler did less than what Jesus will do and he is viewed as a monster, a man of great evil and violence.

Why the double standard?

Because Hitler had devils round him while Jesus cast devils out.

That's a fair point.


Tcg

[marco]

I neither wrote the book nor approved its inclusion into the canon. Others bear that responsibility. Its absence wouldn't make a great difference. The Revelator simply fleshed out the details of the violence Jesus promised to bring.

Without him, we'd simply be left to wonder the nature of Jesus' violence. If Jesus is a man of his words, the violence is coming whether or not the Revelator was correct about the details.

I was being jocular, since I never take Revelation seriously. When one says "If we accept revelator" it's like saying "if ostriches are elephants" - and then we can deduce the Pope is Rumpelstiltskin.

The kindest thing I've heard was the author was mad, poor thing, and that seems to fit. But if we want to get incriminating stuff on Jesus, for the Hitler comparison, Revelation is certainly a good place to find it. Go well.

[Willum]

They were both saviours of their people:
Hitler saved Germany from economic oppression.
Jesus... actually Jesus probably simply contributed to the Diaspora beginning in 66 CE.

So Jesus effectively wound up killing more Jews than Hitler. That is sobering.
Both born poor.
Carpenter vs war hero.

Some claim Hitler was Jewish, not a huge claim since apparently about 20% of Europe has some "Jewish" genetic trait.
As I have noted, Jesus was also not Jewish.

So, who knows what that means.

I am reaching.
Hitler invoked Jesus to kill Jews.
Jesus invoked God not to kill anyone.

I give up.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 10 by marco]

Don't you think that Hitler commiting mass murder (though his orders) and Jesus having done no such thing is an essential difference?

Shall we judge Jesus by the Book of Revelation, by something he might do based on the fevered visions of John?

Even if the "avenging Jesus" is real, (in some future apocalypse) could it be that Jesus has more of a just cause for his aggressive retribution than does Adolph Hitler? Common sense would indicate yes.

The historical Jesus (the only real Jesus so far) was a pacifist. Adolph Hitler was just the opposite.

But the OP posits a vile comparison. Is this what atheists stoop to now?

[marco]

[Replying to post 10 by marco]

Don't you think that Hitler commiting mass murder (though his orders) and Jesus having done no such thing is an essential difference?

Shall we judge Jesus by the Book of Revelation, by something he might do based on the fevered visions of John?

Even if the "avenging Jesus" is real, (in some future apocalypse) could it be that Jesus has more of a just cause for his aggressive retribution than does Adolph Hitler? Common sense would indicate yes.

The historical Jesus (the only real Jesus so far) was a pacifist. Adolph Hitler was just the opposite.

Disgusting topic though, OP and comparison. Is this what Atheists stoop to now? Vile comparison.

The point is, there are many things that disgust in the Bible. When we superficially dismiss a question, reason goes to sleep. Hitler obviously is diametrically opposite to Christ but that raises a paradox. How can GOOD end up being close to evil? How did well-intentioned communism kill millions?

We deify men at our peril: Hitler seemed the answer to the unfair Treaty of Versailles, and undoubtedly enjoyed national popularity, and military success. But utter evil resulted from his rise. When Jesus became God, people died for opposing it or for just being scientists.

Jesus came to cause division, as he said, and he did through the centuries. People suffered agonising deaths and others happily allowed themselves to be burned for Christ's sake. Christian warred against Christian - and they still do.

By all means let us extol the good in Christ. The challenging comparison is not to convert good into wickedness, but to illustrate that evil can result from naïve intent. Is it sweet to die for some belief? Was it right that the poor souls he befriended should all suffer execution for his idea, even if it was a good idea? And if it was a wrong idea, as Hitler's was..... what then?

The god of the OT can likewise be compared to men who have destroyed millions; is this fair? If the comparison is absurd, as it seems, then truth will flower and Christ redeem himself. When we forbid people even to ASK a question we enter a dangerous world. To further human knowledge some people do have to dissect cadavers. Truth sometimes hides in horrible places. Go well.

[marco]

Hitler invoked Jesus to kill Jews.
Jesus invoked God not to kill anyone.

Well he asked his fellow men to love each other. He probably realised the futility of asking God not to kill - he asked him not to lead us into temptation but the possibility of massacring humanity is left.

The important difference seems to be that, although horror rose from the words of both men, Hitler intended his destruction. Jesus did not, unless you take literally his odd declaration to "cause strife, put mother against daughter and father against son."

Evil arises when we take a man and place him in an exalted position. That can lead us to burning scientists and killing those who call a teddy bear by the name of our hero.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 17 by marco]

Yes, horror arose from the adherents of both men. But much good also arose from the disciples of Jesus of Nazareth. Has any good come from Hitler and his followers?

And beside, the nature of the man Jesus himself seems to have been one of benevolence. And Hitler, malevolence.

Another essential difference. Jesus would almost certainly be dismayed at the destruction caused in his name. Hitler seemed to revel in the destruction he and the Nazis caused.

And I know of many saintly people who follow Jesus today (and I think you do too ), and even believe that he is God. I know of no saint who follows Hitler.

[marco]

Has any good come from Hitler and his followers?

Human life is such a contradiction. Who would have thought that a German Chancellor would visit Auschwitz? Angela Merkel brought a gift of 50 million euros for the upkeep of the site. And who would have thought that a rich German, Oskar Schindler, would be hailed as a righteous man among the nations? And after years of being condemned, Pope Pius xii was found to have helped thousands of Jews. Out of the darkness that Hitler brought, came signs that man can demonstrate goodness.

When we read the diary of the child, Anne Frank, we understand there are no Jews, Christians, Muslims or atheists in the best sense - only people struggling to make meaning of a brief existence. Hitler taught us that we who were never in Auschwitz
suffered and died there too; our metaphorical death brings life and a love for our fellow beings.

Hitler did not bring about this "lux in tenebris" any more than Jesus personally brought destruction.

[Willum]

[Replying to marco]

The problem with you stating that Hitler intended destruction, vs Jesus intended peace, is that Jesus supposedly had the left brain of God, and so knew the outcome of his words.
So his message must have been one he knew would be perverted, and phrased it in ways that it could be.
If he existed.