Did Jesus say his father was the God of Israel?

[Avoice]

I am trying to recall if Jesus said his God was the God of Israel. There were lots of gods back then.

[Willum]

The god of Israel is such a small thing.
A little backwater province of Alexander's Empire, then Rome's. Actually unimportant except for when the horrible Seleucid/Phoenician Ba'El worshipers ruled it.

Jesus claimed his father was an all-powerful god.
The only all-powerful god around in 30 CE, was Zeus, of Greek and Roman fame.
In fact Jesus is homonymic Je-Zeus, or since his name was Joshua, Io Zeus, or to anyone who spoke Greek or Latin, "Hail Zeus."

So why would Jesus claim such a tiny parochial deity as his father?
It makes no sense.

Repeat:
The only all-powerful god around in 30 CE, was Zeus, of Greek and Roman fame.

That is interesting, no?
It fits right into my hypothesis that Rome created Jesus as a religious infiltrator to pacify Jerusalem.

Wow, sometimes I impress myself.

[Divine Insight]

I am trying to recall if Jesus said his God was the God of Israel. There were lots of gods back then.

The Gospels have Jesus referencing the Old Testament stories. They also have him proclaiming that not one jot or one tittle shall pass from law. That can only point to the God of Israel.

Moreover, the whole idea is that the birth of Jesus and everything else that supposedly supports that he is the "Son of God" is also based on prophesies associated with the God of Israel.

Also, have you forgotten (or are perhaps unaware?) that the Gospels claim that Jesus is descendant from kind David? And I'm pretty sure they even claim that this linage goes clear back to Adam.

So no, any attempt to suggest that Jesus was claiming to be associated with some other God simply isn't going to work.

~~~~~~~~~~

Having said this, I would like to suggest that the Gospel Rumors about Jesus cannot be trusted. And if that's the case then a historical Jesus may very well have imagined God to be something different from the God the Israelis invented.

I actually see where Jesus could have been a Mahayana Buddhist and was simply trying to bring that higher level morality into his home culture. Of course, this requires that much of the Gospel rumors is nonsense that Jesus himself most likely never said nor would support. Such as the "Jot and Tittle" thing.

But then again, we only see this claim about jot and tittle in the Gospel of Matthew and many Scholars have suggested that Matthew most likely made this up in an attempt to convince fundamentalist Jews that Jesus did not come to change the laws which the Jews would never accept.

The problem is that everything Jesus taught requires that the laws be changed anyway. Even the Christians claim that Jesus brought a "New Covenant" (that would be a change in the laws).

The bottom line is that the theology simply isn't tenable. Either way. It doesn't matter what God Jesus was dreaming off, Christianity as a theology cannot stand up to any serious examination.

But then neither can its parent religion of Judaism. So there's nothing new there.

[Avoice]

[Replying to Willum]

Je-Zeus....ha!

Hail Je-Zeus son of Zeus!

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 3 by Divine Insight]

As you noted,references to the Hebrew Scriptures is reason enough. I was just wondering if God was ever called the God of Israel. By jesus or anyone in the Christian testament

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 3 by Divine Insight]

As you noted,references to the Hebrew Scriptures is reason enough. I was just wondering if God was ever called the God of Israel. By jesus or anyone in the Christian testament

Why should they call him the God of Israel? Supposedly this is the only God that exists. Therefore he must necessarily be the God of all mankind.

To even call him the God of Israel already suggests a polytheistic view doesn't it?

This appears to suggest that there actually must exist other Gods then right?

After all if this is the God of Israel, and I have nothing to do with Israel, then why should I care about their God?

If that's the case then surely I must have my own God based on my heritage.

The whole Abrahamic theology is based on jealousy and an attempt of cultures to try to own the patent rights on God.

What about Allah? Would that be the same God of Israel?

And why would God take sides with any particular political nation anyway?

Theologies that are based on politics and nations should be recognized immediately as something that men invented to support their own tribes, politics and nations.

Surely a God who created everything wouldn't be siding with, or favoring, any human tribe. That's a huge theological red flag right there.

[Tart]

I am trying to recall if Jesus said his God was the God of Israel. There were lots of gods back then.

Id recommend you to read the Gospels for the answers to your questions. They arent that long. The New Testament isnt that hard to get through. A lot of people here are ill informed about its content. You should explore them yourself.

However, "Israel" is a name given to Jacob, the son of Isaac, the Son of Abraham. Which Jacob gave birth to twelve sons who formed the twelve tribes of Israel and started the Israelite's.

Jesus was a decanted of these men, according to the Gospels. And Jesus talks about the God of Abraham, and the decedents of Abraham many times in the Gospels.

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 1 by Avoice]

I believe Jesus said, before Abraham was I AM. (Jn 8:58)

Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Then took they up stones to cast at him: ... (John 8:54-59)

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (John 10:27-38)

And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son? And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son? (Luke 20:41-44)

As you noted,references to the Hebrew Scriptures is reason enough. I was just wondering if God was ever called the God of Israel. By jesus or anyone in the Christian testament

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.... He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(John 1:1-14)

So maybe not a direct hit but I think it is safe to assume that the New Testament portrays Jesus as the God of the Old Testament... because no man has seen or heard the Father at any time and Christ said one of His reasons for coming was to reveal the Father.

[marco]

[Replying to post 3 by Divine Insight]

As you noted,references to the Hebrew Scriptures is reason enough. I was just wondering if God was ever called the God of Israel. By jesus or anyone in the Christian testament

It is implied by Paul when he explains how God turned against his people, but Paul hopes that Israel can still be saved.





Romans 11:25-28 25

Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins." 28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs....."

which is good news for Israel.

[1213]

I am trying to recall if Jesus said his God was the God of Israel. There were lots of gods back then.

Jesus told there is only one true God that is greater than him:

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

And Jesus is speaking of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, for example because:

But about the dead, that they are raised; haven't you read in the book of Moses, about the Bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?' He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are therefore badly mistaken."
Mark 12:26-27