Glory, God, Messiah... None of the above?

[Tart]

Many post here question the nature of Jesus, who he was... They question, is Jesus God? Is Jesus the Son of God? The Messiah?

And i ponder, what implications do these question have to do with my beliefs? Why would i care, for instance, if I believe Jesus is God, or (instead) Jesus is the Son of God?

Why would anyone care about that?

Why would anyone question this idea within their beliefs, instead of just saying "im not sure"? What implications does this question have to do with their faith? Their personal beliefs in how they conduct their lives? Is it a way of denying Jesus? His Glory(i hypothesize to myself)? What do you think?

This is less about the idea whether he is God, Son of God, Messiah, or nothing... And more about, what that means to you in your life, in your beliefs, of what you believe... How does it affect those things? Why care one way or the other?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Tart]

I dont think anyone can claim to be in a relationship with someone withou knowing the fundamentals about who they are.

If you friend claimed to be in love with a woman but when questioned about their name, family, profession, nationality, characteristics, goals, habits and appearance said... "I dont know, nor do I care to know " one may well question how deep the relationship is

Can someone who doesnt know the basics of who Jesus is (Almighty God? A created prehuman son of God? A human son of God? Messiah? Prophet? A good man? Part of a truine godship? or... is not sure if he was any bettter than Adolf Hitler ) really claim to have a relationship with him? Is not caring one way or the other, evidence of being open minded and accepting or evidence of distain? They say the opposite of love is not hate but indifference?

So ask me again why would anyone care about the question of Jesus identity?




JW

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Tart]

I dont think anyone can claim to be in a relationship with someone withou knowing the fundamentals about who they are.

One of the key fundamentals about Jesus is that he was, reportedly, born almost 2,000 years ago. That means that he is most undoubtedly dead. You can't have an actual relationship with a dead man. An imaginary one is certainly possible.


Tcg

[Tart]

[Replying to post 1 by Tart]

I dont think anyone can claim to be in a relationship with someone withou knowing the fundamentals about who they are.

If you friend claimed to be in love with a woman but when questioned about their name, family, profession, nationality, characteristics, goals, habits and appearance said... "I dont know, nor do I care to know " one may well question how deep the relationship is

Can someone who doesnt know the basics of who Jesus is (Almighty God? A created prehuman son of God? A human son of God? Messiah? Prophet? A good man? Part of a truine godship? or... is not sure if he was any bettter than Adolf Hitler ) really claim to have a relationship with him? Is not caring one way or the other, evidence of being open minded and accepting or evidence of distain? They say the opposite of love is not hate but indifference?

So ask me again why would anyone care about the question of Jesus identity?




JW

Can you explain this statement you said more..

Is not caring one way or the other, evidence of being open minded and accepting or evidence of distain? They say the opposite of love is not hate but indifference?


Here is my question... Some debate whether Jesus is God, some debate whether Jesus is the Son of God... What does that mean for us?

But after reading your response, lets me question that a step deeper... Say, someone is unsure to the exact lineage of Christ... There's one in Luke and one in Matthew... Or say that, someone is unsure of the exact accounts of the Resurrection... We have 4 different accounts of them... Would that call into question their relationship with Christ, like you are suggesting?

What do you believe about those things?

[Tart]

[Replying to post 3 by Tcg]

lol... i wish i could take a vote between who believes JW's response and who believe Tcg's response.. Both vastly different

Ill withhold my own decisions for now...

[JehovahsWitness]

Can you explain this statement you said more..

Is not caring one way or the other, evidence of being open minded and accepting or evidence of distain? They say the opposite of love is not hate but indifference?

Certainly. Some people say "It doesnt matter if Jesus was the son of God, a trinity or just a Prophet... just accept him as you see him and love one another...its not important." But what they are really saying is HE is not important. Which is fine but one cannot claim to love someone and at the same time view them as unimportant. And one cannot at the same time claim someone is important to you but say you don't care to know who they really are.

The bible presents a basic prerequisite for everlasting life at John 17:3

JOHN 17:3

This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ

According to scripture in order to be approved by God one MUST come to know and love God and Jesus as they really are. This will require effort, but someone who isnt sure (or doesnt care to find out for sure) who Jesus is, will not, according to John 17:3, get life.

[JehovahsWitness]

Say, someone is unsure to the exact lineage of Christ... There's one in Luke and one in Matthew... Would that call into question their relationship with Christ, like you are suggesting?

What do you believe about those things?

What do you mean by " exact lineage"...? Neither account names every single individual in Jesus lineage the pupose was clearly to establish that Jesus was a descendant of the house of David. Someone that isn't sure if Jesus was in fact of royal lineage, isnt sure if he qualified as the Messiah. Messiah means "Christ"... can one really be a CHRISTian and not be sure if Jesus was the Christ?

His MESSIAHSHIP was one of the most important things in his life, he was willing to DIE rather than deny it...you tell me, can someone really claim to know the man or love him but not care of he was who he claimed to be? Would it not be reasonable doe anyone aspiring to become a Christian to find out if Jesus was indeed the Christ?

If you claimed to have a good relationship with a man thatt claimed to be a doctor but when asked "Is he a doctor" you replied "I'm not sure" how "close" do you think people wiuld say you were to the man?

It is a basic fact of life one cannot be in a relationship with someone one doesnt know!

[JehovahsWitness]

... Or say that, someone is unsure of the exact accounts of the Resurrection... We have 4 different accounts of them... Would that call into question their relationship with Christ, like you are suggesting?

Again faith in Jesus role is a fundamental basic elementary first step to knowing him.

Jesus death and resurrection became the basis of the Christian faith, as Paul so eloquently explained, without the resurrection Christians are not inly "pitiable" but liars, since the good news of the kingdom os based on Jesus literal resurrection being a historical fact.

Jesus explained he came to die for mankind and his dying words expressed his own faith that his father would resurrect him. His resurrection was part of bible prophecy and divine testimony that Jesus was who he said he was.

How close would you feel someone was if they doubted everything the person said, lived and died for?

[Tart]

Can you explain this statement you said more..

Is not caring one way or the other, evidence of being open minded and accepting or evidence of distain? They say the opposite of love is not hate but indifference?

Certainly. Spme people say "It doesnt matter if Jesus was the son of God, a trinity or just a Prophet... just accept him as you see him and love one another...its not important." But what they are really saying is HE is not important. Which is fine but one canmot claim to love someone and view them as unimportant. And one cannot at the same time claim someone is important to you but say you dont care to know who they really are.

The bible presents a basic prerequisite for everlasting life at John 17:3

JOHN 17:3

This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ

According to scripture in order to be approved by God one MUST come to know and love God and Jesus as they really are. This will require effort, but someone who isnt sure (or doesnt care to find out for sure) who Jesus is, will not, according to John 17:3, get life.

Idk... if we thought that our actions could save us, that we have to work for salvation, then maybe it would "require effort"... Though i question anyone who tells people that we are saved by our works, and not faith.

Also... I question if the world is meant to believe in Jesus or not.. i was actually thinking of this last night... Is everyone suppose to believe in Jesus? And am i suppose to say so?

I dont know... Wasnt Abraham credited for faith?

Certainly I am trying to gather the Body of Christ together... That is my desire.. But is it my job to go to a Muslim and tell them they are wrong? Even if they are faithful? A Buddhist who is faithful? A Hindu?

I certainly believe the Gospel should be preached to all nations, but does that mean forcibly converting people by words? Judging people?

I'd like to think, preaching the Gospel to all nations is spreading the truth of Jesus in word and actions. The love of God, His faithfulness. And if they receive it, the benefits of that, and if not, let my peace return to me...

[Tart]

Say, someone is unsure to the exact lineage of Christ... There's one in Luke and one in Matthew... Or say that, someone is unsure of the exact accounts of the Resurrection... We have 4 different accounts of them... Would that call into question their relationship with Christ, like you are suggesting?

What do you believe about those things?

What do you mean by " exact lineage"...? Neither account names every single individual in Jesus lineage the pupose was clearly to establish that Jesus was a descendant of the house of David. Someone that isn't sure if Jesus was in fact of royal lineage, isnt sure if he qualified as the Messiah. Messiah means "Christ"... can one really be a CHRISTian and not be sure if Jesus was the Christ?

His MESSIAHSHIP was one of the most important things in his life, he was willing to DIE rather than deny it...you tell me, can someone really claim to know the man or love him but not care of he was who he claimed to be? Would it not be reasonable doe anyone aspiring to become a Christian to find out if Jesus was indeed the Christ?

If you claimed to have a good relationship with a man thatt claimed to be a doctor but when asked "Is he a doctor" you replied "I'm not sure" how "close" do you think people wiuld say you were to the man?

The point is, you think your knowledge about Christ will save you... You are suggesting that if someone is unsure about something about Christ "How could they know him, how could they have a personal relationship with him?"

But, do you know what Jesus was doing at the age of 20? Which lineage do you believe in Luke or Matt?