What belifs make a Christain?

[Donray]

For me to ask a question in another topic I need to understand what beliefs a Christain must have to be called a Christian.

From my understanding in using this board, several online religious course, and my
knowledge on the bible I have come to the following:

There are only two beliefs that all Christians must have:

1: That Mary was a virgin and God created a baby in her.
2: Jesus was crucified and rose from bring dead.

It does matter if you think the bible is 100% true or 100% stories and myths.
It does not matter if ware magic underwear or not.
It does not matter if you are baptized or not.
It does not matter if your gay or not.
It does not matter what rituals you perform.
It does not matter if you belong to one of thousand Christain cults and main religions.
It does not matter if you pray or attend a church.

Nothing else matters.

Am I correct?

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 46 by onewithhim]

So it's alright to hate bad things.

In what way is homosexuality a bad thing? Please explain without simply saying that the creator does not like it. That does not make something bad.

[Divine Insight]

That is true. However, if I remember correctly, someone ASKED me if two gay men were indeed Christians. I answered as truthfully as I knew how.

ASKED?

I think you need to go back and re-read post #34 again. It wasn't a question. You were simply told that two gay men where true Christians and you proclaimed otherwise.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 48 by Divine Insight]

Apology? Perfect, Strong's Definition: From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect... it's s not my opinion. The word means complete.

I'm lost with the whole apology bit.

Soj

Well, you better study up on apologetics then. You made an excuse for Christian theology, that's a theological apology.

You said:

Be ye perfect, would be better, more accurately, translated, be ye complete; because mankind was made to receive the Spirit of God and is an incomplete creation.

You made, not one, but two, theological apologies there for Christian theology.

Your first apology was the claim that mankind was made to receive the Spirit of God.

The second apology was the claim that mankind is an incomplete creation.

I don't question that these claims are made within the doctrine. So I'm not challenging the dogma.

However, I think it's fair to point out the logical flaws in the claims of this dogma.

And the logical flaw is the simple fact that if man is an incomplete creation then he cannot be blamed for being in that predicament. That could only be the fault of his creator for not having created man completely in the first place.

So the problem with this kind of dogma is that it has a creator who creates mankind with flaws and then tries to pin the blame for those flaws onto the men who were created incomplete in the first place.

Therefore this dogma contains extreme flaws. In other words, the "apologies" that the dogma itself tries to create are logically flawed.

Surely when discussing Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma questions concerning the logical consistency of the Theology, Doctrine, or Dogma should be within the scope of consideration.

A God who creates men who are incomplete has no business blaming the men for being incomplete. Nor could it be their fault.

So we have a theology here that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It's making accusations toward men that simply don't hold water.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 46 by onewithhim]

So it's alright to hate bad things.

In what way is homosexuality a bad thing? Please explain without simply saying that the creator does not like it. That does not make something bad.

Well, I think that if you think about it, homosexual acts are not normal nor beneficial for a person's body. Our bodies weren't made for receiving the male organ into one's mouth or anus. There was a great article in Discover magazine back in the early 1980s (and would never be printed now!) that brought out, scientifically and medically, how bad those acts are for the anus. I have a copy of it in my file.

Besides that, I think that this forum accepts the Bible as a viable source of morality. It clearly tells us what is bad.

"You must not lie down with a male in the same way that you lie down with a woman." (Leviticus 18:22)

Many other scriptures bear this out. Homosexual acts are in the same league as adultery, murder, kidnapping, and other unhealthy things.

Romans 1:24-27
I Corinthians 6:9,10
I Timothy 1:9,10


It's none of my business what people do in their own homes, and I don't judge anybody as "going to hell," as they say, because anybody can change. But you know, when other people bring up the subject and, especially, ask me what I think about it, I will tell them. People can do what they want, but, please, don't call it Christian.

[onewithhim]

That is true. However, if I remember correctly, someone ASKED me if two gay men were indeed Christians. I answered as truthfully as I knew how.

ASKED?

I think you need to go back and re-read post #34 again. It wasn't a question. You were simply told that two gay men where true Christians and you proclaimed otherwise.

True. My bad. The OP mentioned, though, that he wondered if it mattered whether or not a person was gay in order to be a Christian. Then when the two gentlemen were presented as gay AND Christian, I commented within the shadow of the OP.

[PinSeeker]

mankind was made to receive the Spirit of God and is an incomplete creation.

Originally, man was created good, even very good, as God Himself declared. Man is in need of salvation/a savior/the Spirit as a result of the Fall of Adam.

...it is impossible, with, by and through man. But with God, all things are possible. You must become converted, a process that stretches over a lifetime.

Actually, conversion -- justification -- is once and for all. Sanctification, the process of being conformed to Christ leading to glorification, stretches over a lifetime.

Grace and peace to all.

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 56 by PinSeeker]

mankind was made to receive the Spirit of God and is an incomplete creation.

Originally, man was created good, even very good, as God Himself declared. Man is in need of salvation/a savior/the Spirit as a result of the Fall of Adam.

...it is impossible, with, by and through man. But with God, all things are possible. You must become converted, a process that stretches over a lifetime.

Actually, conversion -- justification -- is once and for all. Sanctification, the process of being conformed to Christ leading to glorification, stretches over a lifetime.

Grace and peace to all.

Man was made in the form and shape of God, but out of dirt, finite and in the process of dying... unlike his Creator, who was made of Spirit, infinite and self-existent. But God wasn't playing dollies. He created mankind in His image for a purpose. Adam merely put a wrench in the works, Christ, the second Adam, put mankind back on track. Man is no part of what his potential is to be.

We are saved by His life in us, as we submit to His way of life, it changes us, by His Spirit, joined to our human spirit, we become a new creation. You want to read about Salvation, check out the last chapter in 1 Corinthians.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
(1 Corinthians 15:50-58)

This is the salvation of God for Mankind.

Soj

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 56 by PinSeeker]

mankind was made to receive the Spirit of God and is an incomplete creation.

Originally, man was created good, even very good, as God Himself declared. Man is in need of salvation/a savior/the Spirit as a result of the Fall of Adam.

...it is impossible, with, by and through man. But with God, all things are possible. You must become converted, a process that stretches over a lifetime.

Actually, conversion -- justification -- is once and for all. Sanctification, the process of being conformed to Christ leading to glorification, stretches over a lifetime.

Grace and peace to all.

Man was made in the form and shape of God, but out of dirt, finite and in the process of dying... unlike his Creator, who was made of Spirit, infinite and self-existent. But God wasn't playing dollies. He created mankind in His image for a purpose. Adam merely put a wrench in the works, Christ, the second Adam, put mankind back on track. Man is no part of what his potential is to be.

We are saved by His life in us, as we submit to His way of life, it changes us, by His Spirit, joined to our human spirit, we become a new creation. You want to read about Salvation, check out the last chapter in 1 Corinthians.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
(1 Corinthians 15:50-58)

This is the salvation of God for Mankind.

Soj

1) Mankind was made in the image of God, meaning with His qualities (love, wisdom, power and justice). We could never be in the exact same kind of body as Jehovah. He made us to imitate His QUALITIES and take care of Earth, and His original purpose was for man to live here on Earth forever, without dying. Adam messed up, and his progeny has suffered for thousands of years. But God's original purpose has not been thwarted. It will come to pass. Why would God make something that has no purpose? You say man "is no part in what his potential is to be." That doesn't sound like the orderly God I know.

2) I am very familiar with the last chapter in I Corinthians. NO, the salvation of God for mankind is the government that will reign over the earth, consisting of Jesus Christ and his co-rulers (144,000 of them). Jehovah chose a certain amount to go to heaven to be with Christ. The majority of mankind will always be on the earth to enjoy its beauty and abundance, and find pleasure in doing things we enjoy. Jehovah is finally going to see His purpose fulfilled. How ridiculous to think that God created mankind to live here for awhile and then become spirit persons and live in the spirit realm. (He did call some to go to heaven to rule with Christ, and that is what Paul is talking about in I Corinthians chapter 15. He is part of the ruling class.)


"For this is what Jehovah says, the Creator of the heavens, the true God, the One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, who did not create it for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited...." (Isaiah 45:18)

"As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, but the earth he has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16)


"The righteous will possess the earth, and they will live FOREVER ON IT." (
(Psalm 37:29)

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 57 by Sojournerofthearth]

I do believe that the Kingdom of God is set up on the Earth...

But this is a description of a Resurrected Christ.

And I turn about to look for the voice which spoke with me. And, turning about, I perceived seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like a son of mankind, dressed in a garment reaching to the feet, and girded about at the breasts with a golden girdle." Now His head and hair are white as white wool, as snow, and His eyes as a flame of fire, and His feet like white bronze, as fired in a furnace, and His voice is as the sound of many waters." And He has in His right hand seven stars, and out of His mouth a sharp two-edged blade is issuing, and His countenance is as the sun appearing in its power." And when I perceived Him, I fall at His feet as dead. And He places His right hand on me, saying, "Do not fear! I am the First and the Last, and the Living One: and I became dead, and lo! living am I for the eons of the eons. (Amen!) And I have the keys of death and of the unseen." (Revelation 1:12-18)

This is us...
1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 

As a human, you're to imitate how Christ was on this earth, so that you can become a part of His family... not like the dog is part of the family, but as a born son of God.

Soj

[PinSeeker]

Man was made in the form and shape of God, but out of dirt, finite and in the process of dying... unlike his Creator, who was made of Spirit, infinite and self-existent. But God wasn't playing dollies. He created mankind in His image for a purpose. Adam merely put a wrench in the works, Christ, the second Adam, put mankind back on track. Man is no part of what his potential is to be.

We are saved by His life in us, as we submit to His way of life, it changes us, by His Spirit, joined to our human spirit, we become a new creation. You want to read about Salvation, check out the last chapter in 1 Corinthians.

I'm not sure what you think I said, or what you think I said that you are refuting. A few things, though:

• * "Playing dollies?" I have no idea what that is in reference to or even means.
  
  * I guess you could say Adam "put a wrench in the works," but it was no mere thing. Plunging the human race into a state of spiritual death is pretty bad...
  
  * "Man is no part of what his potential is to be" doesn't really make much sense to me, either. If you think man has the capacity in this life to be sinless, I would wholeheartedly disagree with that.

Grace and peace to you, Sojourner.