Why Did God Create Atheists?

[Zzyzx]

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Why Did God Create Atheists?

There is a famous story told in Chassidic literature that addresses this very question. The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is here to teach us a lesson.

One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?�

The Master responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.�

“This means,� the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’�
—Martin Buber, Tales of Hasidim Vol. 2 (1991)

Sure beats ‘sending thoughts and prayers’ doesn’t it?

[Elijah John]

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Why Did God Create Atheists?

There is a famous story told in Chassidic literature that addresses this very question. The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is here to teach us a lesson.

One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?�

The Master responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.�

“This means,� the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’�
—Martin Buber, Tales of Hasidim Vol. 2 (1991)

Sure beats ‘sending thoughts and prayers’ doesn’t it?

Not an "either or thing". I do like Buber's approach though, and am convinced that some atheists do have that "inner sense of morality". Where we differ though, (as far as I know) is that I believe God implanted that inner sense, even in the atheist.

And the Theist can sure learn from that the example of the noble atheist. To do good for "goodness sake". There is much wisdom in Jewish literature.

[Willum]

Here we go again giving credit to God for an effect that pre-existed him.

There have been atheists for as long as there has been religion.
There have been atheists sharing the culture of, or even dominating the cultures of the religious.

Atheism pre-exists God by about 130,000 years, ad exists in every culture.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

A few other reflections on Buber and the Hasidim. Notice Judaism doesn't condemn atheists for simply being atheists. And does not teach that God condemns them for that either. The notion that atheists are atheists supposedly because they "love sin" etc, doesn't come up at all there. Judaism seems to recognize that there are other, more benign reasons for disbelief that do not arise from character flaws.

Jewish Wisdom traditions run deep, and are profound.

[Elijah John]

Here we go again giving credit to God for an effect that pre-existed him.

There have been atheists for as long as there has been religion.
There have been atheists sharing the culture of, or even dominating the cultures of the religious.

Atheism pre-exists God by about 130,000 years, ad exists in every culture.

Perhaps, but is there any record or evidence of atheism that pre-date pre-historic man? I doubt it. But there is evidence of belief. Call them cave man superstitions, but belief is ancient.

[Zzyzx]

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Perhaps, but is there any record or evidence of atheism that pre-date pre-historic man? I doubt it. But there is evidence of belief. Call them cave man superstitions, but belief is ancient.

Humans are not born knowing about or believing in 'gods'. They are taught such things by other humans.

Until humans began telling each other about 'gods', from where would anyone have learned such things -- from talking snakes and donkeys? From visiting 'angels'?

[Elijah John]

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Perhaps, but is there any record or evidence of atheism that pre-date pre-historic man? I doubt it. But there is evidence of belief. Call them cave man superstitions, but belief is ancient.

Humans are not born knowing about or believing in 'gods'. They are taught such things by other humans.

Until humans began telling each other about 'gods', from where would anyone have learned such things -- from talking snakes and donkeys? From visiting 'angels'?

Where did the cave men learn belief. Not from talking snakes and donkeys. There is something in humanity that reaches for the supernatural. Inborn, instinct, call it what you will, even superstition. Paul alludes to such things in the first chapter of Romans. The RCC calls such universal longing for the Divine and morality, "natural law". Jefferson alludes to "the laws of Nature and Nature's God in the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson was not superstitious, but was a man of Reason.

Thomas Paine asserts that the original religion of man was simple Deism. And predicts it will be the last. His assertions are as easily, (or not) supportable as are the skeptics.

[Divine Insight]

"He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.�

This is not only obviously true, but it also reveals something quite profound I think.

Who should a God who truly cares about moral values appreciate more? An atheist who does good thing because it's simply who the atheist is? Or a theist who does good things because he thinks some God commanded him to do them?

If you're looking to judge which is the better person shouldn't it be obvious that the atheist wins hands down?

The Abrahamic religions are more concerned about a supposedly egotistical God who demands to be obeyed. He's clearly not interested in judging people's moral character for if he wasn't he wouldn't command anyone to do anything but instead just let them decide for themselves. That's the only way to truly test someone's moral character.

As far as I'm concerned this only demonstrates that the Abrahamic religions were invented by men who wanted to place obedience to authority above all else. They used this religion as a facade of authority to demand how people should act. And they weren't really concerned about morality much at all. That was just a facade. What they really wanted was to demand your attendance in church and your mandatory tithes (i.e. taxes).

Sure, modern day churches no longer demand attendance or that you pay tithes. But modern day churches are just a hang-over from the original purpose of this religion.

Today the religion is just coasting along in free-fall as a remnant of the authoritarian governmental tool it used to be. Although in some places it's still strongly tied to governmental control and authority.

But one thing we can know for certain is that it's not about a God who's out to judge the moral character of people. If a God wanted to do that he would have never commanded how people must behave. Instead he would just allow them to behave in accordance with who they are and judge them on that.

So the fact that the religion is a fraud should be obvious to everyone who takes a moment to reflect on this.

[Tcg]

There is something in humanity that reaches for the supernatural. Inborn, instinct, call it what you will, even superstition. Paul alludes to such things in the first chapter of Romans.

This is not true of all humans:

• Disbelieve it or not, ancient history suggests that atheism is as natural to humans as religion
  
  People in the ancient world did not always believe in the gods, a new study suggests – casting doubt on the idea that religious belief is a “default setting� for humans.
  
  Despite being written out of large parts of history, atheists thrived in the polytheistic societies of the ancient world – raising considerable doubts about whether humans really are “wired� for religion – a new study suggests.
  
  https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/dis ... s-religion

The fact that some humans are not "wired" for religion is enough reason to question the validity of Paul's claims in Romans 1 and similar claims made today.


Tcg

[William]

[Replying to post 1 by ]

Zzyzx: Why Did God Create Atheists?

William: The Creator creates the environment in which The Game is played.
Atheists and Theists create themselves - or more to point - they create that which they self-identify as being, for themselves...or accept that which others identify them as being, or a mixture of both.

Jesus is attributed with telling the story of those who thought they knew him but did not, and those who did not know him, but he nonetheless knows them through the choices they made which developed attitudes that aligned them with his message, even that they did not know this at a conscious level.