Does free will always exist, ever now? Is it something that just pounces upon us as it were unaware, and we imbibe its sweet release/accepting its responsibility as-it-comes? Or is it dare I say a libertarian thing wherein we make SOME KIND of contribution that is tangible? Does it exist under some other, perhaps unexplainable category altogether? Does it exist solely as an interface, as the process continuing-on in the intersect between time and eternity? Perhaps free will does pounce upon us, but we are ever initiating and cooperating this grace, which but for our prior contribution we would not be enlivened?
I don't think free will is libertarian anymore, though I am open to believing it could be. And yet libertarian freedom seems to trifle and cheapen the extent of the Journey-Toward-Freedom and the fact that verily there is a PLAN in motion that, perhaps could not be were it not foreseen and indeed ORCHESTRATED by the Master Himself.....
Freedom IS - Yet How IS It?
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Dimmesdale
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Dimmesdale
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Re: Freedom IS - Yet How IS It?
Post #2[Replying to post 1 by Dimmesdale]
It is so hard to get my relevant points across! Oh how subtle a thing freedom truly is! That in trying to cast it in the form of language the true meaning escapes me! I can only settle for third or fourth rate....
It is so hard to get my relevant points across! Oh how subtle a thing freedom truly is! That in trying to cast it in the form of language the true meaning escapes me! I can only settle for third or fourth rate....
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Dimmesdale
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Re: Freedom IS - Yet How IS It?
Post #3[Replying to post 1 by Dimmesdale]
There is a sense that in the beginningless DEVELOPMENT of free will, in it's dynamic constant energetic plenitude, there was never a time when Free Will is/was not developmentally initiated. There is always a wise upper-level (not material) cause which sends it on a certain road. That this road folds back upon itself and retraces its steps is a given of the sentient condition, yet the HOW of all this still escapes me.
In the beginning was the Self, and from it came God, Names, Forms and Sentient Consciousness. They began to roll with freedom in all its permutations. Yet it was no longer wholly freely-initiated. Effort was needed in some form or other by sentient AND self-aware (properly human) entities. Is this effort then, as a transformation of Freedom In-Itself, something that initiates itself in that instance of initiation, at certain junctures, within the context of finitude, or is it a solely Higher Level Committee decision by the Supreme Will itself? Or is it both in some all-encompassing sense?
There is a sense that in the beginningless DEVELOPMENT of free will, in it's dynamic constant energetic plenitude, there was never a time when Free Will is/was not developmentally initiated. There is always a wise upper-level (not material) cause which sends it on a certain road. That this road folds back upon itself and retraces its steps is a given of the sentient condition, yet the HOW of all this still escapes me.
In the beginning was the Self, and from it came God, Names, Forms and Sentient Consciousness. They began to roll with freedom in all its permutations. Yet it was no longer wholly freely-initiated. Effort was needed in some form or other by sentient AND self-aware (properly human) entities. Is this effort then, as a transformation of Freedom In-Itself, something that initiates itself in that instance of initiation, at certain junctures, within the context of finitude, or is it a solely Higher Level Committee decision by the Supreme Will itself? Or is it both in some all-encompassing sense?
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Dimmesdale
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Re: Freedom IS - Yet How IS It?
Post #4[Replying to post 3 by Dimmesdale]
Freedom in the material egoic context cannot wholly free itself from material tinctures, i.e., the atmosphere of consciousness which it is situated in. Thus we are rightly said to possess only MINUTE INDEPENDENCE even in the most relatively unadulterated psyches.
This is not to say It (Free will) cannot STEP BACK. The question is to what degree can it step back? The answer is: both infinitely and hardly (at the same time!). Once one becomes bogged down at the level of form, that is the surest indication one has fallen back into the material pool.
Freedom in the material egoic context cannot wholly free itself from material tinctures, i.e., the atmosphere of consciousness which it is situated in. Thus we are rightly said to possess only MINUTE INDEPENDENCE even in the most relatively unadulterated psyches.
This is not to say It (Free will) cannot STEP BACK. The question is to what degree can it step back? The answer is: both infinitely and hardly (at the same time!). Once one becomes bogged down at the level of form, that is the surest indication one has fallen back into the material pool.
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Dimmesdale
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Re: Freedom IS - Yet How IS It?
Post #5Perhaps looking at the matter incarnationally, one may use the analogy of the avatara (the descent) of the Supreme Will becoming a finite will. Yet this does not do overly well in settling out the factor of the rigmarole of the nitty-gritty in decision making. How does the Supreme Will assert itself in the finite, or the finite in the Infinite? When one has firmly "decided" on "being in control", and not being a slave to "sin" is this more or less a show, or is there some essence behind such decision-making, which perhaps "lets in the light" of the Great Being into the heart of the decision-maker? And yet we idolize it.Dimmesdale wrote: Is this effort then, as a transformation of Freedom In-Itself, something that initiates itself in that instance of initiation, at certain junctures, within the context of finitude, or is it a solely Higher Level Committee decision by the Supreme Will itself? Or is it both in some all-encompassing sense?
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Dimmesdale
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Re: Freedom IS - Yet How IS It?
Post #6[Replying to post 1 by Dimmesdale]
It is said that doing is being, and being is doing. They are ultimately inseparable from each other. But they are still on the level of form at least separable.
Being seems fixed. Doing seems in motion. And yet to do is to be. It is to be enlivened by one's very essential nature which is to work.
Being is a constant, but it can be lost; as through inertia, when we lose what causes us to remain lively, by not being lively, and thus losing favor with it.
It is said that doing is being, and being is doing. They are ultimately inseparable from each other. But they are still on the level of form at least separable.
Being seems fixed. Doing seems in motion. And yet to do is to be. It is to be enlivened by one's very essential nature which is to work.
Being is a constant, but it can be lost; as through inertia, when we lose what causes us to remain lively, by not being lively, and thus losing favor with it.
