God's command to commit sin?

[polonius]

Does God ever tell his followers to commit sin? Any examples from the Bible?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

No. Never.

"I will declare the name of Jehovah. Tell about the greatness of our God! The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice, a God of faithfulness who is never unjust;; righteous and upright is he." (Deut.32:4)

[wiploc]

Does God ever tell his followers to commit sin? Any examples from the Bible?

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

No. Never.

"I will declare the name of Jehovah. Tell about the greatness of our God! The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice, a God of faithfulness who is never unjust;; righteous and upright is he." (Deut.32:4)

So god never hardened hearts and darkened counsels in order to see that people misbehaved?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 3 by wiploc]

No, he ALLOWED hearts to become and/or stay hardened. He would never harden someone's heart if they were innocent. They had shown a definite propensity for hardening their own heart against him.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 3 by wiploc]

No, he ALLOWED hearts to become and/or stay hardened. He would never harden someone's heart if they were innocent. They had shown a definite propensity for hardening their own heart against him.

NO, he deliberately hardened the pharaoh's heart in direct violation of his free will. God should never do that to anyone, innocent or otherwise.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 3 by wiploc]

No, he ALLOWED hearts to become and/or stay hardened. He would never harden someone's heart if they were innocent. They had shown a definite propensity for hardening their own heart against him.

NO, he deliberately hardened the pharaoh's heart in direct violation of his free will. God should never do that to anyone, innocent or otherwise.

He did say He would harden pharaoh's heart. But, He makes His rules and abides by them. None of the other gods seemed to have loyalty to their rules. Maybe this gained Him the following He still has?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 3 by wiploc]

No, he ALLOWED hearts to become and/or stay hardened. He would never harden someone's heart if they were innocent. They had shown a definite propensity for hardening their own heart against him.

NO, he deliberately hardened the pharaoh's heart in direct violation of his free will. God should never do that to anyone, innocent or otherwise.

If I told you of a judgement against you, such as you will die if you dont change your attitude, would your heart harden against me? Would I not be the cause of your heart hardening? Of course you're free not to have such feelings against me.

[polonius]

Thus says the Lord:

God instructed Saul through the prophet Samuel to “go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey� (1 Samuel 15:3-4,)

Is all what we consider scripture really God speaking to us?

[polonius]

I will declare the name of Jehovah. Tell about the greatness of our God! The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice, a God of faithfulness who is never unjust;; righteous and upright is he." (Deut.32:4)

RESPONSE Except when God directs the slaughter of innocent children See post above.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 3 by wiploc]

No, he ALLOWED hearts to become and/or stay hardened. He would never harden someone's heart if they were innocent. They had shown a definite propensity for hardening their own heart against him.

NO, he deliberately hardened the pharaoh's heart in direct violation of his free will. God should never do that to anyone, innocent or otherwise.

If I told you of a judgement against you, such as you will die if you dont change your attitude, would your heart harden against me? Would I not be the cause of your heart hardening? Of course you're free not to have such feelings against me.

I don't see how your response in any way contradicts my point that God deliberately violated the pharaoh's free will and hardened his heart. You can see in the passages from Exodus where there is a distinction between the pharaoh hardening his own heart and God doing it to him. God should not have done that. One could even argue that God is fully culpable in the ultimate plague which resulted in the slaying of all the first born.

EXODUS 4:21
And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
EXODUS 7:3
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
EXODUS 7:13
And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
EXODUS 8:15
But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
EXODUS 8:19
Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
EXODUS 8:32
And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.
EXODUS 9:7
And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go.
EXODUS 9:12
And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.
EXODUS 9:27-28
And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the LORD is righteous, and I and my people are wicked.
Intreat the LORD (for it is enough) that there be no more mighty thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no longer.
EXODUS 9:34-35
And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants.
And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the LORD had spoken by Moses.
EXODUS 10:19-20
And the LORD turned a mighty strong west wind, which took away the locusts, and cast them into the Red sea; there remained not one locust in all the coasts of Egypt.
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.
EXODUS 10:26-27
Our cattle also shall go with us; there shall not an hoof be left behind; for thereof must we take to serve the LORD our God; and we know not with what we must serve the LORD, until we come thither.
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.
EXODUS 11:9-10
And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you; that my wonders may be multiplied in the land of Egypt.
And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.
EXODUS 14:3-4
For Pharaoh will say of the children of Israel, They are entangled in the land, the wilderness hath shut them in.
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD. And they did so.
EXODUS 14:8
And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand.
EXODUS 14:17
And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.