Bathsheba's child

[Athetotheist]

In 2 Samuel 11, David gets Bathsheba pregnant and arranges her husband Uriah's death so he won't find out. In chapter 12 the prophet Nathan confronts David about what he has done and David repents. Nathan tells David that God has forgiven him, but then in verse 14 Nathan says this:

"However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also born to you shall surely die."

We are then told:

"And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bore to David, and it became ill. David therefore pleaded with God for the child, and David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground......Then on the seventh day it came to pass that the child died" (vv. 15-16, 18).

Here is a story in which a king does something scandalous and the king's national deity can't come up with any better way to deal with it than to strike an innocent child with a slow, wasting death.

When Bible-based arguments fail, Bible apologists often fall back on asking, "If you don't believe the Bible, where do you get your morals?" How moral would they consider any religion in which any other god did the same thing, in the same way, for the same reason we read about here? In what non-biblical context would they find this story morally acceptable?

[Athetotheist]

Okay I was wondering why you pointed that out to me (it wasn't me that suggested the child was guilty in some way). So I was a little confused as to what that has to do with the points I presented....
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 687#994687

Glad we could get that cleared up, since I went on to address the points you presented in my post #43.

[Athetotheist]

The only innocent person to ever die was Jesus on the Cross... So if it was Zeus who killed Christ, is he guilty?

If Jesus was the only innocent person ever to die, what was Bathsheba's child guilty of?

[Tart]

[Replying to Athetotheist]

idk... i dont know the child... We would have to look at its crime... Every human being is capable of hate, lying, theft, selfishness, etc...


The problem is our sins are hidden, and we debate about the sins of people we dont know, and have nothing to do with us... If the devil never deceived us (i hypothesize).. There would be no debate about sin... We would all be humbled in the presence of each other, united in knowledge, of the real life problem of sin.

but we sit here and prophecy about way may be true....

[Tart]

you ever think about that? Who do we know here on DC&R??

No one... we know words of people...

Who do we know???

I pray for the Body, to know and be known to one another... Stand in account for ourselves...

that is what God is... To know God and be known by God... In the Body of Christ (the people of God)...

And the antiChrist is those who depart from us.

"18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." (1 John 2:19)

[ttruscott]

In spite of God's law that adulterers should be put to death immediately,

Please remind me where the immediacy of the judgement is expressed...

[ttruscott]

Innocence doesn't have to be proven. Guilt does.

How quaint. For a person already judged to be guilty and condemned to avoid the judgement one must prove their innocence to overturn the guilty verdict. The bald claim that the sentence was wrongly executed because of their supposed innocence is not enough to impugn GOD's justice.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Athetotheist]

idk... i dont know the child... We would have to look at its crime... Every human being is capable of hate, lying, theft, selfishness, etc...

Lying? Theft? No more than a few weeks after being born?


[quote="Tart"[The problem is our sins are hidden, and we debate about the sins of people we dont know, and have nothing to do with us... If the devil never deceived us (i hypothesize).. There would be no debate about sin... We would all be humbled in the presence of each other, united in knowledge, of the real life problem of sin.

The problem, as I see it, is that people who cannot possibly be guilty of any wrongdoing----like infants----die, and some can't reconcile that with their conviction that death is not for the innocent. Presuming some guilt on the part of those who die, even those too young to reject the evil and choose the good, even if it requires going back before birth, therefore becomes the only conclusion comfortable enough for them. So they search and filter and re-interpret their texts until they get a justfication for what they want to believe.

[Athetotheist]

Innocence doesn't have to be proven. Guilt does.

How quaint. For a person already judged to be guilty and condemned to avoid the judgement one must prove their innocence to overturn the guilty verdict. The bald claim that the sentence was wrongly executed because of their supposed innocence is not enough to impugn GOD's justice.

Quaint? It's biblical. Even in your Bible, witnesses are required to establish guilt, not innocence.

See my comment in post #67. You may see someone in it you recognize.

[Tart]

[Replying to Athetotheist]

idk... i dont know the child... We would have to look at its crime... Every human being is capable of hate, lying, theft, selfishness, etc...

Lying? Theft? No more than a few weeks after being born?


[quote="Tart"[The problem is our sins are hidden, and we debate about the sins of people we dont know, and have nothing to do with us... If the devil never deceived us (i hypothesize).. There would be no debate about sin... We would all be humbled in the presence of each other, united in knowledge, of the real life problem of sin.

The problem, as I see it, is that people who cannot possibly be guilty of any wrongdoing----like infants----die, and some can't reconcile that with their conviction that death is not for the innocent. Presuming some guilt on the part of those who die, even those too young to reject the evil and choose the good, even if it requires going back before birth, therefore becomes the only conclusion comfortable enough for them. So they search and filter and re-interpret their texts until they get a justfication for what they want to believe.

Well the simple truth is this, and its funny you talk about this, because the innocent being sacrificed was Jesus on the cross, for your sins and my sins... Im guilty... I have committed adultery... I have killed people... And children have been unborn because of my sins...

This is exactly why we need to have faith in Christ... This is why we need to have faith...

[Athetotheist]

Well the simple truth is this, and its funny you talk about this, because the innocent being sacrificed was Jesus on the cross, for your sins and my sins... Im guilty... I have committed adultery... I have killed people... And children have been unborn because of my sins...

This is exactly why we need to have faith in Christ... This is why we need to have faith...

Whatever you may have done----or may *think* you've done----you didn't do any of it before you were a month old, did you?