Jesus' Resume...WHAT DID HE DO?

[Red Wolf]

What did Jesus ever do, that we can see, to improve the lives of mankind?
As a Prophet, what prophecies did Jesus ever make that have been fulfilled?
Jesus was a charismatic orator....he said some great sayings.....but what did he ever do?
IMO, all we have from Jesus are unfulfilled promises. We have nothing concrete that we can see. Did Jesus die for your sins? How can you tell if he did or not? How can you tell if you still have sins or not?
WHAT DID JESUS DO?

[Elijah John]

And when asked about the commandments he omits the first four. So does Paul. And thats okay with you is it?

I've wondered about that as well. Seems a bit odd to say the least. But in other places Jesus affirms Sh'ma, (in Mark, the earliest Gospel) and the two great laws of love, love of God and neighbor.

You dont have to give up bacon? God said don't eat it. Didn't you hear him? And when i say vacon i mean pork. And people know that i mean pork. Because that is what people think of when saying bacon

Do the dietary laws and Sabbath laws apply to Gentiles? I don't think so, never did. Only to Jews. It is my understanding that we Gentiles are only required to keep the 7 Noahide laws, which really overlap with the Ten Commandments. To be a righteous Gentile we are to embrace none but YHVH as our God, and strive to live ethical lives in order to have "a portion in the word to come" or what Jesus calls, "The Kingdom of God".

And beside, how many of the 613 Mitzvot do most Jews actually keep? Subtract the sacrificial laws, subtract the stoning laws laws etc, and what's left? Some of those laws were written for Moses' primitive theocracy, and do not apply to anyone anymore. Or perhaps they do, but many are not universal.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 11 by brianbbs67]

For God sakes, he negated the sabbath day even. Rather than discipline his disciples for plucking corn on the sabbath he defends their actions with an irrelavent excuse.

And when asked about the commandments he omits the first four. So does Paul. And thats okay with you is it?

I don't know what you are talking about. Neither Jesus nor Paul snubbed any of the commandments. And Jesus wasn't breaking any Sabbath law when his disciples picked corn. It can hardly be said that they were performing work by threshing grain!

Also, @ Avoice. Aren't there exceptions to Sabbath observance when it comes to sustaining life? The disciples were hungry.

[Red Wolf]

[Replying to post 1 by Red Wolf]

WHAT DID JESUS ACTUALLY DO OF ANY VALUE?

The answer to this question very much depends on what one values. At the very least Jesus was a great teacher. While some may dismiss teachers as having of no practical value, this would be a a mistake. Indeed of all the actions one can pursue arguably the act of teaching is the nobelist as it not only imparts knowledge to others and thus raises them to a higher plain of existence, but plants seeds that can grow long after the teacher is gone.

What did he teach?

Jesus didnt build bridges or conquer empires, he did not introduce mankind to new technologies or his knowledge of new scientific or medical discoveries. He simply taught by word and example how love of God and of neighbour can change a person from within.

"A man’s greatness can be measured by what he leaves to grow, and whether he started others to think along fresh lines with a vigor that persisted after him. By this test Jesus stands first." - H G Wells

Those that argue that we need roads not righteousness, technology not tenderness do well to open their history books at the pages that record the Holodomor, the Holocaust or the the Rwandan genocide to see mankinds problems are not lack of high-speed internet connections but a disconnect with fundamentals such a love, compassion and a basic recognition that all human life has value.

Christians of course believe in an added, more important achievement of Jesus, namely his laying the basis for the solving of all mankinds problems, but even those that do not entertain belief in the spiritual, do well not to dismiss too quickly the achievements of a man's whose words so moved his listeners they went in to change the course of human history.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS





RELATED POSTS

Was Jesus Great?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 730#986730

Is it true Jesus never said anything useful?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 079#952079

Did Jesus really say nothing even slightly "philosophical"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 101#952101

Are claims Jesus showed no interest in the animal kingdom correct?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 068#952068

Jesus was a failure at being a teacher. His message was so ambiguous that his followers have been fighting and killing each other for 2000 years because they have differing views of Jesus' teachings.

[Red Wolf]

[Replying to post 1 by Red Wolf]

To be fair, where does it say he had to do* anything?
Was he supposed to do* anything? If so, who said?
I'm not defending him - just curious if anything other than a physical thing would count here.

* By using the term do/doing I assume you mean physical things.

If Jesus were the legitimate Messiah there is many things he was supposed to do...
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.

Did Jesus do this? NO!

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Did Jesus do this? NO!

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Has Jesus made this happen? NO!

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Has Jesus gathered the Twelve tribes of Israel? NO!

And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Is Jesus sitting on the throne in the tabernacle of David? NO!

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely:

Is Jesus a King executing justice in the earth? Are Judah and Israel dwelling in safety? NO!

I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour.

Has iniquity been removed? Is every man a neighbor? NO!

Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Did Jesus build the Temple and sit upon his throne? NO!

But the humble will inherit the land
And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.
For the arms of the wicked will be broken,
But the Lord sustains the righteous.
The Lord knows the days of the blameless,
And their inheritance will be forever.
They will not be ashamed in the time of evil,
And in the days of famine they will have abundance.
But the wicked will perish;
And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures,
They vanish—like smoke they vanish away.

Has this happened? NO!

“Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it,� declares the Lord.’�

Has this happened? NO!

And many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.�
For the law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Has this happened? NO!

They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,� declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.�

Has this happened? NO!

[Red Wolf]

[Replying to post 5 by Menotu]

The work the Messiah is to do. He did none of it. Christians don't care about that. Him not performing in the capacity if the Messiah isn't why they love him. They are full on the words he speaks. Jesus allows them to live in peace on earth. They dobt worry about the herafter. They die happy. That us what hesus gives them. They dobt feel guilty thats why they vekuece in him. They really love themselves. Because if they really loved God (aka Jesus) they wouldn't have let him die. They woukd have buckled down and obeyed the law. Instead they let (so they think) God kill himself. Oh yeah...thats love.

Lots of words. Void of much sense. Jesus did ALL of what the Messiah was supposed to do. Isaiah chapter 53 tells it all, and no I do not accept that it refers to Israel as a nation as the suffering servant. I can blow that idea out of the water if you want me to. The Messiah was never prophesied to come as a physical conquering warrior and knock the Romans out of their collective sandals. Nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures is that taught.

Jesus demonstrated what he, the Messiah, will do when he reigns over the earth for 1,000 years, by healing sicknesses and raising the dead. He preached peace and love and spoke about what would come in the future---see Isaiah 9:6,7. PEACE is associated with the Messiah. Sure, he will strike the nations with a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15), to get rid of incorrigibly bad people, and then usher in real peace throughout the earth, a far grander thing than merely conquering the Romans.

Psalm 110
Isaiah 11:4
Daniel 2:44

You wrote a lot of words...but didn't tell us anything that Jesus did.

[brianbbs67]

And when asked about the commandments he omits the first four. So does Paul. And thats okay with you is it?

I've wondered about that as well. Seems a bit odd to say the least. But in other places Jesus affirms Sh'ma, (in Mark, the earliest Gospel) and the two great laws of love, love of God and neighbor.

You dont have to give up bacon? God said don't eat it. Didn't you hear him? And when i say vacon i mean pork. And people know that i mean pork. Because that is what people think of when saying bacon

Do the dietary laws and Sabbath laws apply to Gentiles? I don't think so, never did. Only to Jews. It is my understanding that we Gentiles are only required to keep the 7 Noahide laws, which really overlap with the Ten Commandments. To be a righteous Gentile we are to embrace none but YHVH as our God, and strive to live ethical lives in order to have "a portion in the word to come" or what Jesus calls, "The Kingdom of God".

And beside, how many of the 613 Mitzvot do most Jews actually keep? Subtract the sacrificial laws, subtract the stoning laws laws etc, and what's left? Some of those laws were written for Moses' primitive theocracy, and do not apply to anyone anymore. Or perhaps they do, but many are not universal.

I used to think that dietary did not apply. Then I read the verse after James' declaration. Acts 15;21 For Moses has had throughout generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.

So that reinforces 2 things. Dietary and the Sabbath.

They were meant to learn the beliefs. And build upon them. This was a Israelite movement, after all. Like I have said, we would all be Israelites if everyone followed the bible.

We can subtract a lot of the 613 Misvots as we do not have a Theocracy or a Temple.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by Red Wolf]

WHAT DID JESUS ACTUALLY DO OF ANY VALUE?

The answer to this question very much depends on what one values. At the very least Jesus was a great teacher. While some may dismiss teachers as having of no practical value, this would be a a mistake. Indeed of all the actions one can pursue arguably the act of teaching is the nobelist as it not only imparts knowledge to others and thus raises them to a higher plain of existence, but plants seeds that can grow long after the teacher is gone.

What did he teach?

Jesus didnt build bridges or conquer empires, he did not introduce mankind to new technologies or his knowledge of new scientific or medical discoveries. He simply taught by word and example how love of God and of neighbour can change a person from within.

"A man’s greatness can be measured by what he leaves to grow, and whether he started others to think along fresh lines with a vigor that persisted after him. By this test Jesus stands first." - H G Wells

Those that argue that we need roads not righteousness, technology not tenderness do well to open their history books at the pages that record the Holodomor, the Holocaust or the the Rwandan genocide to see mankinds problems are not lack of high-speed internet connections but a disconnect with fundamentals such a love, compassion and a basic recognition that all human life has value.

Christians of course believe in an added, more important achievement of Jesus, namely his laying the basis for the solving of all mankinds problems, but even those that do not entertain belief in the spiritual, do well not to dismiss too quickly the achievements of a man's whose words so moved his listeners they went in to change the course of human history.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS





RELATED POSTS

Was Jesus Great?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 730#986730

Is it true Jesus never said anything useful?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 079#952079

Did Jesus really say nothing even slightly "philosophical"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 101#952101

Are claims Jesus showed no interest in the animal kingdom correct?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 068#952068

Jesus was a failure at being a teacher. His message was so ambiguous that his followers have been fighting and killing each other for 2000 years because they have differing views of Jesus' teachings.

I disagree. Jesus' teachings were very clear. Those of his "followers" who have been fighting and killing each other for 2,000 years have merely ignored his teachings. And why do you think that the Church didn't want people reading the Bible for themselves for hundreds of years, like in the Dark Ages? Bibles weren't available to the ordinary man back then, and the clergy wasn't going to tell people what was really in the Bible. They even burned people at the stake for translating the Bible into language that people could read! Where would the Crusades and the Inquisitions be if people knew that Christ taught to "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"? (Matt.5:44) That's crystal clear. Then why did the Church sponsor wars and genocide? Not because Christ's teachings were "ambiguous"!! Obviously the religious leaders wanted to do stuff that they KNEW was unchristian!

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by Red Wolf]

To be fair, where does it say he had to do* anything?
Was he supposed to do* anything? If so, who said?
I'm not defending him - just curious if anything other than a physical thing would count here.

* By using the term do/doing I assume you mean physical things.

If Jesus were the legitimate Messiah there is many things he was supposed to do...
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.

Did Jesus do this? NO!

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Did Jesus do this? NO!

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Has Jesus made this happen? NO!

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Has Jesus gathered the Twelve tribes of Israel? NO!

And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Is Jesus sitting on the throne in the tabernacle of David? NO!

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely:

Is Jesus a King executing justice in the earth? Are Judah and Israel dwelling in safety? NO!

I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour.

Has iniquity been removed? Is every man a neighbor? NO!

Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Did Jesus build the Temple and sit upon his throne? NO!

But the humble will inherit the land
And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.
For the arms of the wicked will be broken,
But the Lord sustains the righteous.
The Lord knows the days of the blameless,
And their inheritance will be forever.
They will not be ashamed in the time of evil,
And in the days of famine they will have abundance.
But the wicked will perish;
And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures,
They vanish—like smoke they vanish away.

Has this happened? NO!

“Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it,� declares the Lord.’�

Has this happened? NO!

And many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.�
For the law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Has this happened? NO!

They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,� declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.�

Has this happened? NO!

No these things haven't happened YET but they sure as heck will happen in the not too distant future! Every thing you mentioned will be accomplished when Christ comes back at Armageddon to finally obliterate all of the evil in the world. Just because you think that he is being too SLOW doesn't mean that those things will not be accomplished at all!

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 5 by Menotu]

The work the Messiah is to do. He did none of it. Christians don't care about that. Him not performing in the capacity if the Messiah isn't why they love him. They are full on the words he speaks. Jesus allows them to live in peace on earth. They dobt worry about the herafter. They die happy. That us what hesus gives them. They dobt feel guilty thats why they vekuece in him. They really love themselves. Because if they really loved God (aka Jesus) they wouldn't have let him die. They woukd have buckled down and obeyed the law. Instead they let (so they think) God kill himself. Oh yeah...thats love.

Lots of words. Void of much sense. Jesus did ALL of what the Messiah was supposed to do. Isaiah chapter 53 tells it all, and no I do not accept that it refers to Israel as a nation as the suffering servant. I can blow that idea out of the water if you want me to. The Messiah was never prophesied to come as a physical conquering warrior and knock the Romans out of their collective sandals. Nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures is that taught.

Jesus demonstrated what he, the Messiah, will do when he reigns over the earth for 1,000 years, by healing sicknesses and raising the dead. He preached peace and love and spoke about what would come in the future---see Isaiah 9:6,7. PEACE is associated with the Messiah. Sure, he will strike the nations with a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15), to get rid of incorrigibly bad people, and then usher in real peace throughout the earth, a far grander thing than merely conquering the Romans.

Psalm 110
Isaiah 11:4
Daniel 2:44

You wrote a lot of words...but didn't tell us anything that Jesus did.

I certainly did. I mentioned Isaiah chapter 53. I assumed that you know what Isaiah 53 says. It is not about the nation of Israel as the suffering servant, because Isaiah speaks of this servant suffering FOR the nation of Israel, because Israel was in need of correction and help. This one who was to suffer FOR Israel was "a man who was meant for pains," and he "bore our pains"---the pains of Israel. Isaiah says that this man was "pierced for OUR transgressions," that is, the nation of Israel's transgressions, and he was "crushed for OUR errors." Isaiah goes on to describe this suffering servant: "Because of the transgressions of my people [ISRAEL] he received the stroke...although he had done no wrong and there was no deception in his mouth....The righteous one, my servant, will bring a righteous standing to many people, and their errors he will bear." This is what Jesus did when he was put to death. "He carried the sin of many people, and he interceded for the transgressors."

All the other things you mentioned will be done during his Thousand-Year Reign.

[marco]

No these things haven't happened YET but they sure as heck will happen in the not too distant future! Every thing you mentioned will be accomplished when Christ comes back at Armageddon to finally obliterate all of the evil in the world. Just because you think that he is being too SLOW doesn't mean that those things will not be accomplished at all!

It is rather sad that despite modernity hitting us like a blast of cold air, we bury ourselves in folk-lore. There was panic when the millennium came round since many thought this date would herald something biblically dramatic. The Mayans created an astonishing calendar with key events marked out for future emphasis. And of course we have horoscopes; people who are Pisces pick out some happy event for their daily fortune. For many years people paraded in cities with placards reading "The end of the world is nigh."

I would like to see the mathematical ingenuity that has told some of us that apocalyptic events will happen "in the not too distant future."