Civil. Respectful. Intelligent. Thoughtful. Challenging.

Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next

Reply to topic
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:09 am
Reply
Do you believe in free will

Like this post
Hello,

Occasionally when debating non thesist, they claim that there is no free will. I was wondering if this was a prevalent viewpoint among non theists or if it was only a few. Does a non belief in free will help in supporting an argument for you.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:13 pm
Reply

Like this post
It all depends on what you mean. If by free will you mean that I am not always constrained by factors beyond my control and can freely make choices and decisions, then of course, my will is free. If, on the other hand, you mean that our choices and decisions originate from some process that is not subject to the apparently deterministic1 laws of the universe, then I see no evidence of nor theoretical basis for free will. We cannot know if I could have chosen differently from what I have chosen, for any specific choice I have made. Free will opens the metaphysical door to some non-physical entity, a spirit or soul, not subject to the normal laws of determinism. Once that door is opened, God is not far behind.


_________________
1 Except on a quantum scale, where events are random and follow statistical laws rather than discrete ones.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:48 am
Reply

Like this post
Based on my study of physics so far, I conclude that free will does not exist in this universe when it is defined to necessitate something that would not otherwise be.

My lack of belief in free will doesn't support any arguments, but it allows me to dismiss many arguments. Essentially, it furthers my agnosticism in general.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:42 am
Reply

Like this post
Thanks to both of you,

It will take me a while to digiest what you wrote so I won't be replying now. I have to defeat some dominators before they take over the universe. Anyway thank you.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Tue May 10, 2011 3:15 pm
Reply
Free will exists

Like this post
This thread is a bit old, but I feeling like posting to show my own view. I believe free will exists.

Don't we consider choices and reason everyday? Do we not control our own thoughts? (At least to some extent.) We can make all manner of choices. Besides we have clear distinctions between free actions, everything from trivial matters like what to wear or life changing decisions and involuntary actions not under conscious control like or heart rate or compulsive thoughts/behavior.

When it comes to free will as a view among non-theists humans free will is important in Secular humanism. One source on Humanistic psychology can be found here:
http://psychology.about.com/b/2007/04/09/what-is-humanistic-psychology.htm

Goto top, bottom
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Tue May 10, 2011 5:57 pm
Reply
Re: Free will exists

Like this post
Americanguy wrote:
Do we not control our own thoughts? (At least to some extent.)

I see no reason to believe that we do.

That you say "At least to some extent" implies that you believe there is a degree of determinism in our thought processes. Given that you do believe in free will, it follows that there is, at some level, a disconnect between physical interaction and the mind. At what point does this occur?

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Wed May 11, 2011 6:45 am
Reply
Re: Free will exists

Like this post
AkiThePirate wrote:
Americanguy wrote:
Do we not control our own thoughts? (At least to some extent.)

I see no reason to believe that we do.

That you say "At least to some extent" implies that you believe there is a degree of determinism in our thought processes. Given that you do believe in free will, it follows that there is, at some level, a disconnect between physical interaction and the mind. At what point does this occur?


Good point.

Think

I am at lose for answers to that question. I admit i can't explain the distinction between the mind and physical interactions.

Goto top, bottom
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Wed May 11, 2011 8:09 am
Reply
Re: Free will exists

Like this post
Americanguy wrote:
This thread is a bit old, but I feeling like posting to show my own view. I believe free will exists.

Don't we consider choices and reason everyday? Do we not control our own thoughts? (At least to some extent.) We can make all manner of choices. Besides we have clear distinctions between free actions, everything from trivial matters like what to wear or life changing decisions and involuntary actions not under conscious control like or heart rate or compulsive thoughts/behavior.

When it comes to free will as a view among non-theists humans free will is important in Secular humanism. One source on Humanistic psychology can be found here:
http://psychology.about.com/b/2007/04/09/what-is-humanistic-psychology.htm


Do we make our choice? What evidence do you have that 'we control our own thoughts' ? How do you know that our thoughts and our actions are not deterministic?

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Thu May 12, 2011 9:31 am
Reply
Re: Do you believe in free will

Like this post
sleepyhead wrote:
Hello,

Occasionally when debating non thesist, they claim that there is no free will. I was wondering if this was a prevalent viewpoint among non theists or if it was only a few. Does a non belief in free will help in supporting an argument for you.


They know not what it means to their arguments. Let alone their language, thoughts and any semblance of existence. Although I also think they know exactly what free will means and so deny it even more.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:16 am
Reply
Re: Do you believe in free will

Like this post
sleepyhead wrote:
Hello,

Occasionally when debating non thesist, they claim that there is no free will. I was wondering if this was a prevalent viewpoint among non theists or if it was only a few. Does a non belief in free will help in supporting an argument for you.


I don't believe in free will, because I find no reason for doing so and no practical value when it's so vaguely defined. I suspect people use the word without delving into the true philosophical and physical implications it conveys. I think the determinism inherent in this universe combined with a naturalistic explanation for life does a lot to theism when understood as humans having some special place or relation to a "creator". With determinism, having a creator means having a determiner, someone who "sets" us, making sin, Heaven, and Hell lose their meaning. But I don't think free will is a likely scenario for a theistic world (or even likely at all, granted it's coherent), so it's a bit neutral. And deism most likely remains untouched by determinism - maybe even favored against theism.

Wootah wrote:
They know not what it means to their arguments. Let alone their language, thoughts and any semblance of existence.


First, do you know what it means? Can you give me a coherent definition of the source, nature and process of free will?

Secondly, I don't see any practical value in a false generalization like that you did there. It seems like mere words trying to hide a void message.

Wootah wrote:
Although I also think they know exactly what free will means and so deny it even more.


I don't deny it, I simply don't believe it. Nothing points to it and the defenses I've seen of it often resort to misconceptions and obfuscate semantics. So you say we have "exact knowledge" of the meaning of free will. What is it, tell me?

And how is something deniable "even more", either you deny it or you don't, don't you?

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Display posts from previous:   

Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next

Jump to:  
Facebook
Tweet

 




On The Web | Ecodia | Hymn Lyrics Apps
Facebook | Twitter

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.   Produced by Ecodia.

Igloo   |  Lo-Fi Version