Aside from the Gospels what do we know of Jesus?

[polonius]

“Jesus[e] (c. 4 BC – c. AD 30 / 33), also referred to as Jesus of Nazareth or Jesus Christ,[f] was a first-century Jewish preacher and religious leader.[12] He is the central figure of Christianity. Most Christians believe he is the incarnation of God the Son and the awaited Messiah (the Christ) prophesied in the Old Testament.[13][14]

Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed historically,[g] although the quest for the historical Jesus has produced little agreement on the historical reliability of the Gospels and on how closely the Jesus portrayed in the Bible reflects the historical Jesus�

“The Roman historian Tacitus wrote: Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of ... Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome

Question: Do we have historically accurate information about Jesus?

Keep in mind, the gospels were written between 70 and about 95 AD, by non-witnesses. Mark wrote and Matthew and Luke copied mush of their material from him.

Are there any historical writings written earlier say 20-25 years from his
death? How much is historical and how much allegorical?

[polonius]

“The Jews of Jesus' time had studied the Old Testament Scriptures and knew who the Messiah was supposed to be: a political leader that expelled their enemies out of their territory, re-established the Jewish nation, and brought peace and prosperity back to God's chosen people.�

Of course, Jesus never did any of these things.

“The title "son of God" was applied in the Old Testament to persons having any special relationship with God. Angels, just and pious men, the descendants of Seth, were called "sons of God" (Job, i, 6; ii, 1; Ps. lxxxviii, 7; Wisd., ii, 13; etc.). In a similar manner it was given to Israelites (Deut., xiv, l); and of Israel, as a nation,� (Catholic Encyclopedia “Son of God�)

[Red Wolf]

The Hebrew Scriptures told a lot about the Messiah.

According to OT prophecies the Messiah’s arrival would usher in the end of sin, the end of suffering, peace and tranquility, one creed and one religion, one kingdom and one king, the resurrection of the dead, the abolishment of idolatry and false prophets, the gathering of the ten tribes of Israel, the building of the future temple, etc. etc. etc.

But Jesus didn’t bring about any of these world changes.
So is Jesus a false Messiah? A false Christ?

Christians say that Jesus will perform all the Messianic world changes when he comes a second time.

But how can we have confidence that Jesus will perform with the second coming? What’s his performance record so far?

Has Jesus fulfilled any of the Messianic promises with his First Coming?
Did Jesus provide us with any prophecies for the benefit of mankind that he has fulfilled?

If you can’t positively answer these questions with substantial accomplishments that we can all see for ourselves, then perhaps you have faith in a delusion.

[brianbbs67]

Josephus documents him in 18:3;3 In the Antiquities of the Jews. So he existed for sure. The question is the same as its always been. Would the Messiah come first as a suffering servant and then a king or not? Some believe one way, others another.

[Elijah John]

Josephus documents him in 18:3;3 In the Antiquities of the Jews. So he existed for sure. The question is the same as its always been. Would the Messiah come first as a suffering servant and then a king or not? Some believe one way, others another.

What is the Old Testament evidence that the Messiah would need two separate advents to get the job done? Is there any?

[brianbbs67]

Josephus documents him in 18:3;3 In the Antiquities of the Jews. So he existed for sure. The question is the same as its always been. Would the Messiah come first as a suffering servant and then a king or not? Some believe one way, others another.

What is the Old Testament evidence that the Messiah would need two separate advents to get the job done? Is there any?

Isaiah 53 and Zechariah 12:10. Correct and honest translations show this.

https://www.oneforisrael.org/bible-base ... ious-king/

[Difflugia]

Josephus documents him in 18:3;3 In the Antiquities of the Jews. So he existed for sure.

Saying "he existed for sure" based on Josephus is a bit strong, considering that it's not certain that the Testimonium Flavianum is entirely genuine or perhaps genuine at all.

[brianbbs67]

Josephus documents him in 18:3;3 In the Antiquities of the Jews. So he existed for sure.

Saying "he existed for sure" based on Josephus is a bit strong, considering that it's not certain that the Testimonium Flavianum is entirely genuine or perhaps genuine at all.

That passage is Monkeyed with or triniterized in the English for sure. The Arabic and other printings leave out the christianization aspects. I own an old copy(500+ years) and can see it clearly. Yeshua was mentioned and had many followers but the Jews killed him.

[Difflugia]

That passage is Monkeyed with or triniterized in the English for sure. The Arabic and other printings leave out the christianization aspects.

The Arabic doesn't mention Jesus at all. There are no extant Greek manuscripts that completely eliminate a mention of Jesus, but on the other hand, no Church Fathers prior to Eusebius mentioned that Josephus referred to Jesus, even in contexts where it would be expected.

I own an old copy(500+ years) and can see it clearly. Yeshua was mentioned and had many followers but the Jews killed him.

Any interpolation, if it happened, would have been during (or prior to) the fourth century. A 500-year-old copy would match what we have now.

[brianbbs67]

That passage is Monkeyed with or triniterized in the English for sure. The Arabic and other printings leave out the christianization aspects.

The Arabic doesn't mention Jesus at all. There are no extant Greek manuscripts that completely eliminate a mention of Jesus, but on the other hand, no Church Fathers prior to Eusebius mentioned that Josephus referred to Jesus, even in contexts where it would be expected.

I own an old copy(500+ years) and can see it clearly. Yeshua was mentioned and had many followers but the Jews killed him.

Any interpolation, if it happened, would have been during (or prior to) the fourth century. A 500-year-old copy would match what we have now.

There is some disagreement from me on your claim about the Arabic.

https://carm.org/regarding-quotes-histo ... bout-jesus