Checkpoint wrote:
Please discuss, debate, and/or give your answer to any of these questions, or just comment or make an observation.
I would like to offer my observations on these questions. My observations should be seen as those of an educated human, and not a believe or non-believe. Belief or non-belief wouldn't change my answers.
1) Do we really grasp what "God's truth about hell" actually is?
My answer from the perspective of a believer:
If I actually believed in this God I shouldn't be the slightest bit worried about hell. I certainly would have no reason to think that I would end up in such horrible fate.
So as a believer the concept of hell, for me personally, would be irrelevant.
I would also TRUST in God that no one would ever be cast into hell who doesn't actually deserve to be there. And if they truly deserve to be there, then what's the problem?
So unless a believer is truly intentionally evil I can't imagine why they should even be remotely concerned about hell in this religion. Any concern could only be a distrust in God to only cast people into hell who truly deserve that fate.
My answer from the perspective of a non-believer:
Obviously as a non-believer I do not believe that hell even exists. None the less I can still speak to the issue of a supposedly all-wise, all-intelligent, omnipotent God having created such a place. It simply makes no sense to me. This God would have also been the one who created everyone who ends up being cast into hell. This would then mean that God is an inept creator who cannot create humans who are better than this. And it also would mean that this God is incapable of curing evil people.
In short, the very concept of hell demands that a creator is extremely inept, in both his ability to create decent humans, as well as in his ability to heal those who aren't mentally healthy.
And surely to have evil thoughts and intentions that cannot be cured qualifies as an unhealthy mind.
So the very concept of a creator God who casts his defective humans into a state of eternal punishment is utterly absurd. It flies in the very face of the omnipotence this God is supposed to have in the first place.
2) In what way is it "important, even vital, to our understanding of the Gospel"?
My answer from the perspective of a believer:
If the theology is true, then of course the threat of being cast into eternal damnation is the crux of Christianity. What would we need a "Savior" for if this thread of death and damnation where not first hanging over our heads.
I've made this point a million times over. If you don't first have faith that some God is out to damn you, then it's ridiculous to place your faith in a "savior" who will save you from a damnation that you claim to not have first placed your faith in.
So before you can place your faith in the need of a savior, you must first place your faith in the idea that you deserve to be damned.
My answer from the perspective of a non-believer:
As a non-believer it's basically the same story. You need to first place your faith in the idea that a God is out to damn you before it makes sense that you need a savior to save you from damnation.
So the importance of hell (
or at least damnation) is paramount to Christianity and the Gospel stories. Without the threat of damnation, there is no need for a savior.
3) Why is there such strong, even visceral, reaction to "God's truth about hell", so often expressed by both believers and unbelievers?
My answer from the perspective of a believer:
Again, as a believer there is no reason to have any strong or visceral reaction to the concept of hell. To do so can only suggest that the believe has no trust in God to do what's righteous. If anyone goes to hell it can only be the righteous thing to do. Otherwise God would be doing unrighteous deeds by sending people into hell.
So for a believer to find hell or "
everlasting punishment" as Jesus puts it, to be unrighteous, then they can hardly trust their God to be righteous.
My answer from the perspective of a non-believer:
Basically the same things still holds here as well. It would either be righteous to cast people into a state of eternal punishment, or it wouldn't be. Personally I don't see how such an act could ever be justified as any competent creator should be able to create better humans in the first place, and if he can't then casting them into a state of punishment when he's the one who created them with flaws to begin with makes no sense.
So as a non-believer I just see this whole scenario as verifying why this religion makes no sense. And intelligent omnipotent creator should be able to do far better than this, but this religion has an inept creator who can't do any better.
It makes far more sense to me to then conclude that the whole collection of stories is nothing short of man-made nonsense since no actual omnipotent creator could even be this ignorant and inept.
So there's really no reason to believe these religious claims in the first place.
4) Who, or what, is being questioned here? God, or the Bible, or an interpretation?
My answer from the perspective of a believer:
If we're going to believe in this religion we have no choice but to accept what the Bible has to say on these matters. Which isn't good. But we have to have faith that there exist reasons (beyond what can be found in the Bible) for why this God cannot do any better. Nowhere does the Bible explain why this God is inept.
So the idea as a "
believer" is to cling to the hope that after we die God will explain to us at that time why the Bible makes no sense.
On the other hand, if any "
real God" is not what the Bible describes, then the Biblical God is indeed a false picture of God anyway.
So trying to justify any of this as a believer is a serious problem. Let there be no doubt about this as even believers currently recognize and debate over these problems as this very thread puts on display for us.
My answer from the perspective of a non-believer:
Well, as a non-believer I'm certainly not questioning any God as I don't believe the Bible portrays any actual God.
Do I question the Bible? No not at all. I accept the Bible as it is written. Not as the word of God, but as a collection of stories where men have claimed to speak on behalf of a God that they have invented.
Do I question interpretations? Well this is a rather difficult one to answer.
IMHO, there can be no interpretations that dismiss the concept of hell entirely. The New Testament has Jesus speaking clearly about the unrighteous going the way of "
everlasting punishment".
So for me there is no question of interpretation in the Bible. According to the Bible this Biblical God is out to punish people who aren't righteous.
My question is then why would an omnipotent God who is supposed to be able to do anything and heal anyone create unrighteous people in the first place an not heal them?
Even Jesus was supposed to have the power to simply cast evil demons out of people. Where do these evil demons come from? Who created them? And why didn't their creator heal them?
In short, as far as I'm concerned no amount of "
interpretation" can save these ancient stories from their own self-contradictory nature. Trying to reinterpret the Bible into something consistent and sane simply isn't possible.
As far as I can see the only rational solution is to recognize that it's just another religious fable. That's all. There is no God who is threatening to cast defective humans into hell.
If defective humans exist, only God could be responsible for that in the first place.
And if God is incapable of creating mentally healthy humans, they surely he could heal them when they start to show symptoms of not being mentally healthy. But now, the Biblical God can't even do that unless it's Jesus casting out evil demons. But that flies in the face of the whole story. Why didn't Jesus cast the evil demons out of the Pharisees and restore divinity to Church? Clearly the story is nonsense.
So the resolution is simple. The Biblical fables are clearly nothing more than man-made fables. No God could be this inept.
And we certainly shouldn't need a savior to save us from a God who is out to condemn us because he is an inept creator who can't create or heal humans.
The resolution to all these problems is simple. The Bible is man-made folklore and this is why it makes no sense. That's the answer.
