God's truth about hell

[Checkpoint]

This thread stems from this short beginning exchange about hell and truth:


Checkpoint wrote:

Hi again, Pinseeker.

What is it that makes them "truths" rather than "untruths", as you see them, in brief ?

What specifically makes them "very hard truths", do you think?

Pinseeker wrote

Hey, Checkpoint.

I guess the only way to answer the first question is, if God says it, it's true.

To the second, I would say "very hard truths" does not mean "very difficult-to-undertand truths." What I mean is, many people do not want to hear about hell, and/or do not want to accept God's truth about hell. It scares them, it offends them, it's obcene to them... etc. Even believers like me just... well, I shudder at it. It... well, it scares the H-E-double-toothpick out of me. But it's important, even vital to our understanding of the Gospel. Take a look at this if you want:

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/hell/[/quote]

Checkpoint responded

Ah yes Pinseeker, what you say here raises questions rather than gives answers, in my opinion.

1) Do we really grasp what "God's truth about hell" actually is?

2) In what way is it "important, even vital, to our understanding of the Gospel"?

3) Why is there such strong, even visceral, reaction to "God's truth about hell", so often expressed by both believers and unbelievers?

4) Who, or what, is being questioned here? God, or the Bible, or an interpretation?

Please discuss, debate, and/or give your answer to any of these questions, or just comment or make an observation.

[myth-one.com]

I presume that means you are withdrawing from your

exchanges with both tam and myth-one on this thread?

If so, what about our exchange here?

You're probably next!

[Checkpoint]

I presume that means you are withdrawing from your

exchanges with both tam and myth-one on this thread?

If so, what about our exchange here?

You're probably next!

We shall see....

[PinSeeker]

I presume that means you are withdrawing from your exchanges with both tam and myth-one on this thread? If so, what about our exchange here?

Yes, I should have said "all three of you." It's not that I don't want to continue any exchange at all, but rather that it's not profitable to keep treading the same well-trodden ground we've covered several times over already. Wht any one of us believes about the nature and/or reality of hell is not of imminent importance, anyway. In any case, what we can all surely agree on is that what God says about it is true. I'm going to take Paul's advice to Timothy (which is meant for all of us, too).

So, again, grace and peace to you.

[Checkpoint]

I presume that means you are withdrawing from your exchanges with both tam and myth-one on this thread? If so, what about our exchange here?

Yes, I should have said "all three of you." It's not that I don't want to continue any exchange at all, but rather that it's not profitable to keep treading the same well-trodden ground we've covered several times over already. Wht any one of us believes about the nature and/or reality of hell is not of imminent importance, anyway. In any case, what we can all surely agree on is that what God says about it is true. I'm going to take Paul's advice to Timothy (which is meant for all of us, too).

So, again, grace and peace to you.

O.K, that clears that up.

I agree, what God says is true. "Let God be true, and every human a liar".

Our problem is that, more often than we think, we don't really get what He means by what He says and how He says it.

What was Paul's advice to Timothy?

G race and peace to you.

[PinSeeker]

Sorry for the mixed signals:

Again, it's not that I don't want to continue any exchange at all, but rather that it's not profitable to keep treading the same well-trodden ground we've covered several times over already. With that in mind, I'm taking Paul's advice to Timothy (which is meant for all of us, too).

What any one of us believes about the nature and/or reality of hell is not of imminent importance, anyway. In any case, what we can all surely agree on is that what God says about it is true.

So, again, grace and peace to you.

[Checkpoint]

Sorry for the mixed signals:

Again, it's not that I don't want to continue any exchange at all, but rather that it's not profitable to keep treading the same well-trodden ground we've covered several times over already. With that in mind, I'm taking Paul's advice to Timothy (which is meant for all of us, too).

What any one of us believes about the nature and/or reality of hell is not of imminent importance, anyway. In any case, what we can all surely agree on is that what God says about it is true.

So, again, grace and peace to you.

Yes.

I'm left still wondering what advice by Paul to Timothy?

There's a lot of what we might see as advice in two letters, you know.

So, what specifically, and where?

Blessings.

[onewithhim]

Sorry for the mixed signals:

Again, it's not that I don't want to continue any exchange at all, but rather that it's not profitable to keep treading the same well-trodden ground we've covered several times over already. With that in mind, I'm taking Paul's advice to Timothy (which is meant for all of us, too).

What any one of us believes about the nature and/or reality of hell is not of imminent importance, anyway. In any case, what we can all surely agree on is that what God says about it is true.

So, again, grace and peace to you.

Yes.

I'm left still wondering what advice by Paul to Timothy?

There's a lot of what we might see as advice in two letters, you know.

So, what specifically, and where?

Blessings.

What does God say about hell? I wonder if Pinseeker would answer that, please. And I think it is VERY important what the truth about hell is. If it is true that God burns people like pigs on a spit, forever, then He is the most horrid sadistic ogre that ever existed. He would not be a God of love at all, but a God of crazy injustice and sadism. The Bible says that He is "love." (I John 4:8) The Bible is lying if He does in fact roast people in a never-ending fire.

It might behoove us to consider a few facts in this case. Those in hell-fire are supposedly the souls or spirits of those wicked people that died. Tell me, how can a spirit be burned? A spirit does not have nerve endings like physical bodies have. It would not be able to feel pain.

Also, the Scripture says that "death and hell are cast into the lake of fire," in other words---destroyed forever. (Revelation 20:14) If hell is destroyed, then how can anybody burn in it forever?

One might say, well if God says it then it must be true. But DID God say it? I don't believe that He did.



.

[myth-one.com]

Again, it's not that I don't want to continue any exchange at all, but rather that it's not profitable to keep treading the same well-trodden ground we've covered several times over already.

God gains nothing from the eternal torment of nonbelievers.

I agree with this also. But His justice, which cannot be compromised in any way, is satisfied.

How so? What justice requires eternal torment of non-believers?

The world awaits your answer to that one hanging question!

[Checkpoint]

Again, it's not that I don't want to continue any exchange at all, but rather that it's not profitable to keep treading the same well-trodden ground we've covered several times over already.

God gains nothing from the eternal torment of nonbelievers.

I agree with this also. But His justice, which cannot be compromised in any way, is satisfied.

How so? What justice requires eternal torment of non-believers?

The world awaits your answer to that one hanging question!

There is no valid answer, because what is threatened has its source in false religion rather than from a sound basic overview of Scriptural principles and usage.

[PinSeeker]

There is no valid answer, because what is threatened has its source in false religion rather than from a sound basic overview of Scriptural principles and usage.

Heh heh... We come full circle... yet again. I've lost count how many times this is.

Quite simply, the wages of sin is death. But the continuing problem is the wrongful equating of death as defines in the Bible with cessation of existence. That understanding was always, is, and will always be... wrong. In Matthew 25, after sharing two parables designed to reveal the realities regarding God’s kingdom, Jesus discussed a time when He will separate the “sheep from the goats.� Those declared righteous through His blood will receive eternal life, whereas those who rejected Him will “go away to eternal punishment� (Matt. 25:45), into a place of outer darkness, weeping, and gnashing of teeth (Matt. 25:30). In Revelation, we read that the wicked are: "...tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night" (Revelation 14:10-11); that is "unto the ages of the ages" - this clearly describes an unending duration (cf. Revelation 1:6; 4:9; 5:3; 22:5).

Eternity very clearly awaits all, though our ultimate destination look vastly different. Those who’ve trusted in Christ for salvation will immediately be ushered into His presence, where they will remain for all of eternity. Those who have rejected Him and His offer of grace, however, will spend eternity in hell.

If anyone disagrees, well, then fine, we agree to disagree. Surely we can just leave it at that and part gracefully and amicably.

Grace and peace to all.