Early Church Fathers and the Trinity

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Laurelix
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Early Church Fathers and the Trinity

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Post by Laurelix »

From what I have seen in the book “Ante Nicene Fathers� I must admit that the earliest Christians viewed the son as inferior created being and it was only later that people started saying the Father and the Son are the same and then later that they are co equal yet still not adding Holy Spirit into the equation which was done after the Nicene creed. Should we believe the side that some roman pagan emperor has sided with or should we actually look deeper.

Here are some of the controversial quotes by early church fathers

* Clement of Rome (30-100 AD)

“Grace unto you, and peace, from Almighty God through Jesus Christ, be multiplied.�
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“The apostles have preached the Gospel to us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ has done so from God. Christ therefore was sent forth by God, and the apostles by Christ.�
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“May God, who seeth all things, and who is the Ruler of all spirits and the Lord of all flesh —who chose our Lord Jesus Christ and us through Him to be a peculiar people— grant to every soul that calleth upon His glorious and holy Name, faith, fear, peace, patience, long-suffering.
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“We will beg with earnest prayer and supplication that the Creator of the universe will keep intact the precise number of his elect in the whole world, through his beloved Child Jesus Christ. . . . We realize you [God] alone are ‘highest among the highest’ . . . You alone are the guardian of spirits and the God of all flesh.�
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“Let all the nations realize that you are the only God, that Jesus Christ is your Child.��
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“the most perfect, and most holy thing, and most commanding, and most regal, and by far the most beneficent nature, is that of the Son, which is next to the only omnipotent Father.�
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“the Son of God a creature.�


* Polycarp of Smyrna (65-155 AD)

“May the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ Himself, who is the Son of God, . . . build you up in faith and truth.��
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“Peace from God Almighty, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour.�


* Ignatius (30-107 AD)

“There is one God, the Almighty, who has manifested Himself by Jesus Christ His Son.��
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“There is one God of the universe, the Father of Christ, ‘of whom are all things;’ and one Lord Jesus Christ, our Lord, ‘by whom are all things.’�
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“The Holy Spirit does not speak His own things, but those of Christ, . . . even as the Lord also announced to us the things that He received from the Father. For, says He [the Son], ‘the word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father’s, who sent Me.’��
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“There is one God who manifested himself through Jesus Christ his Son, who is his Word which proceeded from silence and in every respect pleased him [God] who sent him. . . . Jesus Christ was subject to the Father.�

* Justin the Martyr (100-165 AD)
Regarding Proverbs 8:22-30

“The Scripture has declared that this Offspring was begotten by the Father before all things created; and that that which is begotten is numerically distinct from that which begets, any one will admit.��
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There is . . . another God and Lord [the prehuman Jesus] subject to the Maker of all things [Almighty God]; who [the Son] is also called an Angel, because He [the Son] announces to men whatsoever the Maker of all things —above whom there is no other God— wishes to announce to them. . . .
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“[The Son] is distinct from Him who made all things, —numerically, I mean, not [distinct] in will.��
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“There is another God or Lord under the Creator of the universe, who is also called Angel, because he announces to men what the Creator of the universe . . . wishes to declare. He who is said to have appeared to Abraham, to Jacob and to Moses, and is called God, is other than the God who made all things. I say, in number, but not in will, for he never did any thing except what the Creator of the universe willed him to do and say.�

* Iranaeus (130-200 AD)

“We may learn through Him [Christ] that the Father is above all things. For ‘the Father,’ says He, ‘is greater than I.’ The Father, therefore, has been declared by our Lord to excel with respect to knowledge.�
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“And thus one God the Father is declared, who is above all, and through all, and in all. The Father is indeed above all, and He is the Head of Christ;�
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“if the Son did not blush to refer the knowledge of that day to the Father [Mark 13:32], neither do we blush to reserve the solution of difficult questions to God. Our Savior used this expression that we might learn from him that the Father is over all; for ‘The Father is greater than I.�

* Hermas the Pastor (160 AD)

“Nor when man wishes the spirit to speak does the Holy Spirit speak, but it speaks only when God wishes it to speak. . . . God planted the vineyard, that is to say, He created the people, and gave them to His Son; and the Son appointed His angels over them to keep them.��
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“The Son of God is older than all his creation.�
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Extra Info: J. N. D. Kelly, in his Early Christian Doctrines, writes about the view of Hermas regarding the Son of God:
“In a number of passages we read of an angel who is superior to the six angels forming God’s inner council, and who is regularly described as ‘most venerable’, ‘holy’, and ‘glorious’. This angel is given the name of Michael, and the conclusion is difficult to escape that Hermas saw in him the Son of God and equated him with the archangel Michael.�
“There is evidence also . . . of attempts to interpret Christ as a sort of supreme angel . . . Of a doctrine of the Trinity in the strict sense there is of course no sign.��


* Clement of Alexandria (153-217 AD)

“To know the eternal God, the giver of what is eternal, and by knowledge and comprehension to possess God, who is first, and highest, and one, and good. . . . He then who would live the true life is enjoined first to know Him ‘whom no one knows, except the Son reveal (Him).�
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“the Lord is the Son of the Creator.��
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“first and only dispenser of eternal life, which the Son, who received it of Him [God], gives to us.�
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More Info:

Regarding Clement of Alexandria, we read in The Church of the First Three Centuries:
“We might quote numerous passages from Clement in which the inferiority of the Son is distinctly asserted. . . .


* Tertullian (155-240 AD)

“The Father is the entire substance, but the Son is a derivation and portion of the whole, as He Himself acknowledges: ‘My Father is greater than I.’ . . . Thus the Father is distinct from the Son, being greater than the Son, inasmuch as He who begets is one, and He who is begotten is another; He, too, who sends is one, and He who is sent is another; and He, again, who makes is one, and He through whom the thing is made is another.�
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“God produced the Son, that by him he might produce the universe. Christ does nothing except by the will of the Father, having received all power from him.�
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“There was a time when the Son was not.� “Before all things, God was alone, himself a world and place, and all things to himself.�


* Origen (185-254 AD)

“the Father and Son are two substances . . . two things as to their essence,�
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“compared with the Father, the Son is a very small light.�
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“the Father who sent him is alone good, and greater than he who was sent.�


* Hippolytus (170-236 AD)
Speaking about the father and the son
“the one God, the first and the only One, the Maker and Lord of all, who had nothing co-eval [of equal age] with him . . . But he was One, alone by himself; who, willing it, called into being what had no being before,�


* Novatian (210-280 AD)
Commenting regarding John 10:30 and the neuter gender defining it’s “one thing�

“Since He said ‘one’ thing, let the heretics understand that He did not say ‘one’ person. For one placed in the neuter, intimates the social concord, not the personal unity. . . . Moreover, that He says one, has reference to the agreement, and to the identity of judgment, and to the loving association itself, as reasonably the Father and Son are one in agreement, in love, and in affection.�


* Lactantius (250-325 AD)

“Before this glorious world arose, God, the Maker and Disposer of all, begat a holy, incorruptible, and incomprehensible Spirit, who is called his Son, and although through him, he afterwards created others—an innumerable host, whom we call angels,—yet he has thought that first-begotten alone worthy of the divine name of ‘Son.’�

If it’s so, Psalm 110:1 would make more sense

Yahweh declared to my Lord*, 'Take your seat at my right hand, till I have made your enemies your footstool.' - NJB

* Messiah / Jesus / Son of God - Look at Luke 20:39-44

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otseng
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Post #2

Post by otseng »

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Moved to Random Ramblings.

Fascinating topic, but it's not presented as a debate question. Please read through Tips on starting a debate topic. Then create a topic with the question, "What did the early church fathers believe about the Trinity?" Then in your second post detail your findings.


brianbbs67
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Post #3

Post by brianbbs67 »

otseng wrote: Moderator Action

Moved to Random Ramblings.

Fascinating topic, but it's not presented as a debate question. Please read through Tips on starting a debate topic. Then create a topic with the question, "What did the early church fathers believe about the Trinity?" Then in your second post detail your findings.

There was a question, without punctuation. Should we follow Constatine or look further? We must seek to find. Maybe the OP could reword the post?

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