Faith....in 'reverse'

[Menotu]

Most understand faith as it pertains to the belief in something. But can it also mean not having a belief in something?

People have faith that God is real, exists, etc. But can other have faith that God is not real, doesn't exist, etc?

Or is faith strictly a 'religious thing'? In other words, can you only have faith in a religious thing/item?

Can an atheist have faith in their belief that God doesn't exist?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by Menotu]

belief
1. an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.
"his belief in extraterrestrial life"
2. trust, faith, or confidence in (someone or something).

We don't not have beliefs. There exists many things I have not thought about and as such my neurons do not generate thoughts about them. But once I am brought to think about something I have a belief about it.

You have a thought and form a belief. Perhaps all thoughts automatically generate beliefs?

Faith is how much you trust a belief. An atheist has looked at the evidence and has no faith in God. A Christian looks at the evidence for God and has put their faith in God.

I think it is more complicated than that. If you have only one choice you have to take it. If you have two choices then you can choose the one you have more faith in. This is why we all worship something. Consciousness of the choice you are making allows you to make other choices. No awareness and you aren't even choosing what you do.

[Adstar]

Most understand faith as it pertains to the belief in something. But can it also mean not having a belief in something?

People have faith that God is real, exists, etc. But can other have faith that God is not real, doesn't exist, etc?

Or is faith strictly a 'religious thing'? In other words, can you only have faith in a religious thing/item?

Can an atheist have faith in their belief that God doesn't exist?

Faith is Not Belief or believing Something..

Faith is Trusting.. If i trust God i have Faith in God..

If one says "i have a faithful partner" you trust that your partner who will not betray you / cheat on you..

[Checkpoint]

Most understand faith as it pertains to the belief in something. But can it also mean not having a belief in something?

People have faith that God is real, exists, etc. But can other have faith that God is not real, doesn't exist, etc?

Or is faith strictly a 'religious thing'? In other words, can you only have faith in a religious thing/item?

Can an atheist have faith in their belief that God doesn't exist?

Faith is not the same as belief.

Faith is trust that God is real, exists, and that some communication is possible.

Faith is when you trust and focus on a God you have not seen.

Belief is when your focus is on what can be seen, or seems logical, being based on known facts. Thus an atheist has no faith in an unseen God,but has belief that no unseen God exists.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 4 by Checkpoint]

Belief is when your focus is on what can be seen, or seems logical, being based on known facts.

What seems logical to one may not to another.
People believe in all kinds of things that can't be seen, tested, verified, logical, etc. Just today I saw a report on a cult in Asia where the 'leader' says only 144,000 can be taken with him when he goes to Heaven (the cult has something like 200,000 members). I have yet to see or hear of something they can or have seen.

Faith is not the same as belief.

Agreed in general.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 3 by Adstar]

Faith is Not Belief or believing Something..

Faith is believing in something you can't prove or have evidence of - at least when it comes to Christianity. So why faith and belief may not be the exact same thing, they tend to 'go together'.

Faith is Trusting

But to trust, you must first believe. Again, not the same thing exactly, but connected.

But the topic isn't about the difference between faith and belief, but if one can have faith in something other that what one tends to think faith relates to - ie God.

Can one have faith that their belief that God doesn't exist is true?

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 2 by Wootah]

An atheist has looked at the evidence and has no faith in God.

Which was what I was asking.
Thank you
Apologies if that wasn't clear initially - I've had an 'interesting' week

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Menotu]

"Faithlessness" is like darkness, it doesn't actually exist, it is only the a concept built to explain the absence of that which does.




JW



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[Overcomer]

Menotu wrote:

Faith is believing in something you can't prove or have evidence of - at least when it comes to Christianity

No it isn't. The Christian faith is based on evidence of many kinds -- cosmological, teleological, ontological, historical, experiential to name a few. The Bible NEVER demands blind faith, but gives example after example of faith put in God and Jesus because of what people have learned about them through personal interaction with them and through historical evidence of their past actions. For the Israelites, the greatest example was God's deliverance of them from Egypt, something witnessed by thousands and recorded for generations to recall. In the New Testament, faith steamed from witnessing Christ's resurrection as recorded in the four gospels and proclaimed by the apostles who had witnessed it.

See here:

https://crossexamined.org/biblical-fait ... ind-faith/

https://coldcasechristianity.com/writin ... -is-blind/

https://www.summit.org/resources/articl ... ith-blind/

Can I prove the truth of Christianity beyond a shadow of a doubt? No, but then we all believe in things that we cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt -- the love of a spouse, the trustworthiness of a friend, the reliability of our automobile -- all things we base on evidence from experience and history. That's the way it is with one's relationship with the Lord.

Are there Christians who are fidiests, that is, who believe without evidence? I'm sure there are. But I think that you will find that your average Christian practices critical rationalism. Critical rationalism emphasizes the role of reason in criticizing, or critically evaluating religious beliefs, but its proponents note that those evaluations cannot be expected to result in conclusive, universally convincing proof that some particular system is correct.

Thomas Aquinas noted that we can determine some of the truth of God through reason, but there are some things we can only know if God reveals them to us. This idea fits nicely into critical rationalism as we use our rational capabilities, to the greatest extent possible, in assessing religious beliefs, but recognize that, where reason can provide no answers, the Holy Spirit can. In other words, faith has an important role in critical rationalism. We trust the Lord to explain what our intellects cannot discern. Faith joins with our reason, enlightening it, and allowing us to move beyond mere human understanding to God’s understanding. Of course, we will not fully grasp the deep things of God, but we can get enough of a glimpse of who he is and what he has done to convince us of his truth.

Put another way, we can know something correctly and truly without knowing it exhaustively. But it IS knowledge based on evidence, not pie-in-the-sky belief.

For more on critical rationalism as it applies to the Philosophy of Religion and Christianity, see here:

https://www.stpetersfireside.org/2012/0 ... nd-reason/

[2timothy316]

Faith is believing in something you can't prove or have evidence of - at least when it comes to Christianity.

This is where many people are incorrect. What you're describing is credulity.
The definition can be found here.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/credulity

There is plenty of evidence out there for faith in God and the Bible. Many dismiss it though because they want God to come down and talk to them face to face. Even then I am not sure that would be enough evidence to give an atheist cause to put faith in a creator. Atheist put their faith in themselves, their own knowledge and wisdom. I always think of flat-earthers, people that think the world is flat. They think this way because they only accept evidence that proves what they believe in.
Here is an example:
Now one might call this guy a few choice names. Yet, examine yourself. Have you yourself walked around the Earth? Been in space and watched the Earth turn with your own eyes? More than likely not. Yet you have made a choice to yourself as whether the Earth is flat or not. How did you come to that faithful conclusion without getting the proof yourself? Your choice as to whether the Earth is flat or not without walking around the Earth yourself is an example of faith. We examined the evidence that points to which conclusion is likely true and made our choice.

Those that have faith in God do the same thing. We take in all the evidence we have and then draw the conclusion that is most likely true.