Should I Willingly Become a Vampire?

[Purple Knight]

For the purposes of this question, theists are free to use whichever vampire lore and/or canon they prefer, as long as the vampire retains their mind but cannot somehow be redeemed. In other words, if you think Buffy's Angel is a good guy who is potentially going to Heaven, that one's out.

So here's the scenario: I am offered a chance by a chain letter to be turned into a vampire. It's your run-of-the-mill pyramid scheme, only with quasi-immortality thrown in.

As an atheist who is not open to being converted to Christianity precisely because I'm appalled by the concept of sin transference or a whipping boy, my understanding is that I will not go to Heaven anyway. I would stand at the gates of Hell and tell God to throw me in because I absolutely do not accept someone else's suffering as punishment for my sins.

So, here's the question: Will it even matter if I murder people?

As a vampire, I will live as long as I can avoid dying to some scary fellow with a stake in his hand. If I can't get very, very flesh blood, I will have to kill humans for it, but I don't intend to kill more than I need to get along. I don't intend to be starving and barely able to move, but I don't care for whatever sweet bonus or sick new ability I get for draining 1001 humans in a day, either.

Here's the rub of this question:

As I understand it, as an evil undead, and likely the most evil thing walking the earth, I am not worse off in the needing forgiveness category than someone who sins in small unavoidable ways but refuses to accept Jesus. (If I am wrong, please enlighten me.)

However, it doesn't really matter if I up my game from sinning in small, unavoidable ways, to murdering a few humans occasionally. The horrible mass murderer needs no more forgiveness than the common atheist. Is this true?

And since I will live longer, pure benefit, at minimal cost, right?

[bluegreenearth]

[Replying to post 1 by Purple Knight]

I understand what you are getting at with this scenario. Very clever;) It will be interesting to see how Christians respond.

[William]

[Replying to post 1]

Purple Knight: (If I am wrong, please enlighten me.)

William: As I understand it, what we each will face in the next phase as we each depart this one, will be our own creation and if that creation is some kind of hellish existence for some, it will be because they each created it themselves.

Why anyone would create a hellish existence for themselves to experience, only they will know, but it will have something to do with their self-judgement/self loathing, even if they spent their life on earth projecting that loathing onto others. The next phase I call The Mirror Mirror Phase and each of us will experience exactly what we project.

In all ways, I think it is a fair and just system to have to undergo, as it allows for the individual entirely, to make the call.

[Purple Knight]

As I understand it, what we each will face in the next phase as we each depart this one, will be our own creation and if that creation is some kind of hellish existence for some, it will be because they each created it themselves.

Why anyone would create a hellish existence for themselves to experience, only they will know, but it will have something to do with their self-judgement/self loathing, even if they spent their life on earth projecting that loathing onto others. The next phase I call The Mirror Mirror Phase and each of us will experience exactly what we project.

In all ways, I think it is a fair and just system to have to undergo, as it allows for the individual entirely, to make the call.

So, if I get this right, according to you, I don't have to fear Hell, but instead, I must fear this Next Phase.

I am aware that for some reason unknown to me that I've created a bad place to live in. I have no idea why, only that I have.

So I can respond to this chain letter and just not change phases. Yes, it costs $1200 for a bite, [strike]but wait! Now that you're in the vampire pyramid scheme, you can sell your bites to others! Just pay a small fee to the one who bit you. You'll make your money back by day 3![/strike] Nope, not doing that. Just paying the $1200 and kissing my money a big fat permanent goodbye.

Is there any reason I shouldn't do this? Will it make my Next Phase worse? If so, how?

It's fundamentally a question that speaks to the idea that the atheist who tries his bloody (lol) best every day needs just as much forgiveness as the mass murderer. I hate myself as much as possible now, and I will hardly hate myself less if I become a vampire, so oughtn't I?

In your interpretation, it seems that we're all stuck in a series of horrible deteriorating Hells where most of us can only ever move down, while the people who trample others move up because they love themselves being on top. (They should do whatever they can to avoid the Mirror Phase.)

I should do whatever I have the means to, to avoid changing phases, right? I mean, if I can only go down.

We all want to think in terms of instant gratification versus long-term investment, and most of us prefer to save for later, rather than borrow and live on a credit card.

However, it seems that in many religious schemes, the people who live on their credit cards never have to pay it back, and the people who invested, invested in nothing.

[William]

[Replying to post 4]

Purple Knight: So, if I get this right, according to you, I don't have to fear Hell, but instead, I must fear this Next Phase.

William: No. Not according to me.

Purple Knight: I am aware that for some reason unknown to me that I've created a bad place to live in. I have no idea why, only that I have.

William: Some might be aware. Certainly since you have this information, if you remember it and take it with you, there is better chance you will understand it that way.

Purple Knight: So I can respond to this chain letter and just not change phases. Yes, it costs $1200 for a bite, but wait! Now that you're in the vampire pyramid scheme, you can sell your bites to others! Just pay a small fee to the one who bit you. You'll make your money back by day 3! Nope, not doing that. Just paying the $1200 and kissing my money a big fat permanent goodbye.

William: Well - not unless there is some reason that you must respond to the chain-letter with $1200. If the buck stopped with you, then you choose to decline the offer.

Purple Knight: Is there any reason I shouldn't do this? Will it make my Next Phase worse? If so, how?

William: Know thyself. I understand you think yourself the most immoral personality in existence? Mirror Mirror.
Time for a cool change while the opportunity is in a slower more thoughtful motion.
Once you draw your last breath, things speed up to instant manifestation time.



Purple Knight: It's fundamentally a question that speaks to the idea that the atheist who tries his bloody (lol) best every day needs just as much forgiveness as the mass murderer. I hate myself as much as possible now, and I will hardly hate myself less if I become a vampire, so oughtn't I?

William: I do not exist to advise you on what you ought do or not.
What puzzles me is that you appear to think all hell would break loose and you think you should fear that.
Yet, if you were a Vampire - what exactly should you be afraid of?

Purple Knight: In your interpretation, it seems that we're all stuck in a series of horrible deteriorating Hells where most of us can only ever move down, while the people who trample others move up because they love themselves being on top.

William: Yes. That is part of the secret. Those on top know this is what is going on and keep us in various states of hell through our beliefs - beliefs they have nurtured us on.

Purple Knight: (They should do whatever they can to avoid the Mirror Phase.)

William: Not at all. Because they know of the phase, they can phase with the phase and mirror something more luxurious than some ol' Hell.

Or can they?

Just to be on the safe side, they are investing heavily in underground mansion-bunkers and AI. If they can defeat death then The Next Phase becomes redundant.
They can rule this Universe for as long as it takes...Mirror Mirror

Purple Knight: I should do whatever I have the means to, to avoid changing phases, right? I mean, if I can only go down.

William: Unless you are one of the 1%, I think you have a better chance at changing yourself so that the reflection you project onto the Mirror Mirror Phase, will be expected to be better.

Purple Knight: We all want to think in terms of instant gratification versus long-term investment, and most of us prefer to save for later, rather than borrow and live on a credit card.

William: Yeah. That there is The System of The Won Percent.

Creating a Hell environment isn't a great investment...but maybe as a Demon Vampire, you might get a kick out of being in the 1% there?

Purple Knight: However, it seems that in many religious schemes, the people who live on their credit cards never have to pay it back, and the people who invested, invested in nothing.

William: I hear you there PK.
It seems so unfair on the surface, but like I have told you, I am learning to veer aways from the rocks of Judgmentalism, trying to keep my craft afloat in this Stormy Simulation.

[Wootah]

For the purposes of this question, theists are free to use whichever vampire lore and/or canon they prefer, as long as the vampire retains their mind but cannot somehow be redeemed. In other words, if you think Buffy's Angel is a good guy who is potentially going to Heaven, that one's out.

So here's the scenario: I am offered a chance by a chain letter to be turned into a vampire. It's your run-of-the-mill pyramid scheme, only with quasi-immortality thrown in.

As an atheist who is not open to being converted to Christianity precisely because I'm appalled by the concept of sin transference or a whipping boy, my understanding is that I will not go to Heaven anyway. I would stand at the gates of Hell and tell God to throw me in because I absolutely do not accept someone else's suffering as punishment for my sins.

So, here's the question: Will it even matter if I murder people?

As a vampire, I will live as long as I can avoid dying to some scary fellow with a stake in his hand. If I can't get very, very flesh blood, I will have to kill humans for it, but I don't intend to kill more than I need to get along. I don't intend to be starving and barely able to move, but I don't care for whatever sweet bonus or sick new ability I get for draining 1001 humans in a day, either.

Here's the rub of this question:

As I understand it, as an evil undead, and likely the most evil thing walking the earth, I am not worse off in the needing forgiveness category than someone who sins in small unavoidable ways but refuses to accept Jesus. (If I am wrong, please enlighten me.)

However, it doesn't really matter if I up my game from sinning in small, unavoidable ways, to murdering a few humans occasionally. The horrible mass murderer needs no more forgiveness than the common atheist. Is this true?

And since I will live longer, pure benefit, at minimal cost, right?

What do you mean you won't accept someone suffering for your sins? Do you make everything yourself? Do you use the labor of others? Do you benefit from the sacrifices of those that came before you?

To be honest, the answer is yes. And in that sense we are vampires. Knowing you ar a monster is half the battle.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by Purple Knight]

I confess it is late at night and tiredness may be the reason why I felt the OP was far longer and complicated than it needed to be, and certainly did not require the vampire analogy, though I love the vampire motif in general.

At any rate, the OP assumes aspects of Christianity which not all Christians hold:

I'm appalled by the concept of sin transference or a whipping boy

This is not a universal understanding of Christianity; substitutionary atonement appears in some theologians, many of which in the scholastic period, but it is not universal.

my understanding is that I will not go to Heaven anyway. I would stand at the gates of Hell and tell God to throw me in because I absolutely do not accept someone else's suffering as punishment for my sins.

We can waive the anthropomorphic imagery. The final answer is, "Of course! If you don't want to be reconciled with someone, even God, you don't have to. You are always free to reject reconciliation. Humans do it every day. We hurt somebody; they point out the hurt we caused and say they forgive us; pride intervenes and we say, 'to hell with your forgiveness'. Reconciliation is thereby rejected of our own freewill.

As I understand it, as an evil undead, and likely the most evil thing walking the earth, I am not worse off in the needing forgiveness category than someone who sins in small unavoidable ways but refuses to accept Jesus. (If I am wrong, please enlighten me.)

It seems the OP is stuck on a quantitative understanding of sin. I understand that Rabbinic Judaism often presented sin in quantitative terms, but it knew that sin was not quantified, any more than a disease was quantified. Doctor's don't say, "You have strep throat 76 percent". You either have it, or you don't.

In Rabbinic literature and in the gospels and Paul it is the same. Sin is a disease which impacts the whole person.

[1213]

…
However, it doesn't really matter if I up my game from sinning in small, unavoidable ways…

What are unavoidable sins? To what is your idea of sin based on?

[tam]

Peace to you!

[Replying to post 1 by Purple Knight]


So you (a hypothetical potential vampire) wouldn't accept someone suffering for your sins in order to gain eternal life, but you would accept others being murdered (by you) to gain a longer life?


Interesting...

[tam]

Peace again to you, and just for record (I don't want to derail your thread)... I don't accept the 'whipping boy analogy'. A person laying down their life so that others may live... this is not a whipping boy.

"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down one's life for one's friends."


But this was just for the record - not to derail your thread. It would be another thread.


Peace again to you!