Monkey Morality
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Monkey Morality
Post #1There is a Christian claim that humans are a "special creation"; made as miniature replicas of the mythological biblical deity, Jehovah.
Certain Christians claim that their morals come from this never-shown-to-be-anything-other-than-imaginary fantasy figure they declare to be "God" with a capital G.
We have had it on this forum that non-human animals do not have morals.
Please watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azGmZrsqJGo
And argue whether or not non-human animals have morals.
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
Post #11
Some research suggests animals have a sense of outrage when social codes are violated. Chimpanzees may punish other chimps for violating certain rules of the social order, said Marc Bekoff, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Colorado, Boulder, and co-author of "Wild Justice: The Moral Lives of Animals" (University Of Chicago Press, 2012).
Male bluebirds that catch their female partners stepping out may beat the female, said Hal Herzog, a psychologist at Western Carolina University who studies how humans think about animals.
And there are many examples of animals demonstrating ostensibly compassionate or empathetic behaviors toward other animals, including humans. In one experiment, hungry rhesus monkeys refused to electrically shock their fellow monkeys, even when it meant getting food for themselves. In another study, a female gorilla named Binti Jua rescued an unconscious 3-year-old (human) boy who had fallen into her enclosure at the Brookline Zoo in Illinois, protecting the child from other gorillas and even calling for human help. And when a car hit and injured a dog on a busy Chilean freeway several years ago, its canine compatriot dodged traffic, risking its life to drag the unconscious dog to safety. https://www.livescience.com/24802-anima ... -book.html
I suggest that only humans imagine "God" as being the originator of morals.
NO human I know of has EVER demonstrated that ANY version of "God" is anything more than imaginary.
No human I know of has ever demonstrated that any "scripture" came from anywhere other than the human imagination.
I conclude that the morality found in "scripture" comes solely from the human imagination.
Either that, or "God" talks to monkeys as well as Christians.
But I wonder if "God" tells different things to different monkeys in the way that "God" tells different things to different humans …?
Isn't it well past time we admitted the whole "God" business is just make-believe …?
Male bluebirds that catch their female partners stepping out may beat the female, said Hal Herzog, a psychologist at Western Carolina University who studies how humans think about animals.
And there are many examples of animals demonstrating ostensibly compassionate or empathetic behaviors toward other animals, including humans. In one experiment, hungry rhesus monkeys refused to electrically shock their fellow monkeys, even when it meant getting food for themselves. In another study, a female gorilla named Binti Jua rescued an unconscious 3-year-old (human) boy who had fallen into her enclosure at the Brookline Zoo in Illinois, protecting the child from other gorillas and even calling for human help. And when a car hit and injured a dog on a busy Chilean freeway several years ago, its canine compatriot dodged traffic, risking its life to drag the unconscious dog to safety. https://www.livescience.com/24802-anima ... -book.html
I suggest that only humans imagine "God" as being the originator of morals.
NO human I know of has EVER demonstrated that ANY version of "God" is anything more than imaginary.
No human I know of has ever demonstrated that any "scripture" came from anywhere other than the human imagination.
I conclude that the morality found in "scripture" comes solely from the human imagination.
Either that, or "God" talks to monkeys as well as Christians.
But I wonder if "God" tells different things to different monkeys in the way that "God" tells different things to different humans …?
Isn't it well past time we admitted the whole "God" business is just make-believe …?
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
Post #12
Animal behavior research suggests that animals have moral emotions. One study found that rhesus monkeys will forgo food if they had to push a lever that would electrically shock their companions to get it. https://www.livescience.com/24802-anima ... -book.html
The obvious debate topic here is whether or not non-human animals have morals.
To phrase it as a question …
Do non-human animals have morals …?
If one's answer is yes …
And we observe that monkeys have a more developed moral code than, say, houseflies …
Are we to say that houseflies didn't attend Sunday school …?
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
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Post #13
SallyF The obvious debate topic here is whether or not non-human animals have morals.To phrase it as a question …Do non-human animals have morals …?
If one's answer is yes …And we observe that monkeys have a more developed moral code than, say, houseflies …Are we to say that houseflies didn't attend Sunday school …
...........
Thomas
This has been a biased agenda from the start, the Opening Post throws stones at Christian's, and now the question is declared to be a consideration of the natural world while still retaining a connection to Sunday school for a bizarre reason that is indicative of the whole sorry mess.
If one's answer is yes …And we observe that monkeys have a more developed moral code than, say, houseflies …Are we to say that houseflies didn't attend Sunday school …
...........
Thomas
This has been a biased agenda from the start, the Opening Post throws stones at Christian's, and now the question is declared to be a consideration of the natural world while still retaining a connection to Sunday school for a bizarre reason that is indicative of the whole sorry mess.
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Re: Monkey Morality
Post #14Some of the Christians that I've watched in debate are not referring to morality in general, but rather to a very specific type of morals, i.e. 'objective morals'. I'm sure many Christians would have no problem agreeing that even non-human animals display morality, but it's another thing to say that these animals are behaving with understanding, purpose, or with 'oughtness' in mind. All of these factors would be part of an objective morality.SallyF wrote: Certain Christians claim that their morals come from this never-shown-to-be-anything-other-than-imaginary fantasy figure they declare to be "God" with a capital G.
Re: Monkey Morality
Post #15AgnosticBoy wrote:Some of the Christians that I've watched in debate are not referring to morality in general, but rather to a very specific type of morals, i.e. 'objective morals'. I'm sure many Christians would have no problem agreeing that even non-human animals display morality, but it's another thing to say that these animals are behaving with understanding, purpose, or with 'oughtness' in mind. All of these factors would be part of an objective morality.SallyF wrote: Certain Christians claim that their morals come from this never-shown-to-be-anything-other-than-imaginary fantasy figure they declare to be "God" with a capital G.
Ah yes - that old chestnut.
It's what I see as one of the numerous smoke and mirrors distractions to take the spotlight off the fact that no one's version of "God" is ever shown to be anything other than human make-believe.
Human animals have a more developed level of morality than other animals …
And the most wonderful way to explain that …
And numerous other stuff …
Is to claim that one or more versions of "God" was behind it …
And disappear behind a smokescreen of "What do you mean by objective morality" and so forth …
And before you know it …
Once again …
No one is looking at the fact that the god in question is never shown to be anything other than imaginary …
And the spotlight is off the angels and virgins and talking donkeys.
And the "philosophy" diversion has worked once more.
With the complete and utter absence of cold hard evidence for the existence of any version of "God" …
We are left with ALL morality quite simply evolving and morphing right along with human evolution.
A clear demonstration that humans are capable of this all by themselves, is evidenced by Christians sweeping the bits of "God's moral objectives" that they don't like under the altar …
And cherry-picking the bits of the "Word of God" that they do like.
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.
"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.