Does fulfilled bible prophecy prove God's existence?

[FWI]

There are many prophecies included in the bible. Where, some have been fulfilled and others have not. Yet, it seems to me that even if one bible prophecy can be validated that's enough proof for the existence of God. Or, is there other explanations or doubts?

[bluegreenearth]

[Replying to post 29 by FWI]

What evidence would you need to have in order to know if your belief about prophecies in the Bible is mistaken??

[FWI]

I'm wondering: What is the prophecy that you are suggesting wouldn't take much luck to get right in Isa. 7?

That the Assyrians would invade and conquer Israel. Isaiah 7:20:

Thanks for putting the effort into my request. Yet, if this was the full prophecy, then yes, it could be claimed that this was bound to happen, but it wasn't…The prophecy also includes that Ephraim will be broken (invaded and conquered) within 65 years (Isa. 7:8) and this is a critical claim and separates the prophecy from the suggestion that guessing can be claimed. So, by reviewing the biblical information, we can conclude that this really was a prophecy that was fulfilled and immune to criticism…Therefore, the key isn't that the Assyrians would invade the northern tribes of Israel, but when they would, which was the prophecy.

[FWI]

[Replying to post 31 by bluegreenearth]

What evidence would you need to have in order to know if your belief about prophecies in the Bible is mistaken??

The only evidence that I would accept for "an individual bible prophecy" being false or mistaken is God, His Son or certain angels opening my mind to see the error…Because, I already have been able to prove (to myself) that certain biblical prophecies have occurred. So, as you seem to be suggesting that "all" bible prophesies are in error, I reject such a claim…

I have given my position on the first two claims (supplied by brunumb in post 11) on "failed biblical prophecies" (post 12 and 29). And, will continue to do so (as time permits).

[bluegreenearth]

The only evidence that I would accept for "an individual bible prophecy" being false or mistaken is God, His Son or certain angels opening my mind to see the error…Because, I already have been able to prove (to myself) that certain biblical prophecies have occurred. So, as you seem to be suggesting that "all" bible prophesies are in error, I reject such a claim…

I have given my position on the first two claims (supplied by brunumb in post 11) on "failed biblical prophecies" (post 12 and 29). And, will continue to do so (as time permits).

My question had nothing to do with whether all Bible prophesies are in error or not. I'm simply attempting to ascertain if you understand the falsification principle. Given the content of your response, it seems you do not recognize the necessity of falsificationism in a reliable belief acquisition process. If you do value the falsification principle, then please explain how it is applied in the method you use to form this belief about Biblical prophecies because it is not clear to me.

[Difflugia]

Thanks for putting the effort into my request.

You're welcome!

Yet, if this was the full prophecy, then yes, it could be claimed that this was bound to happen, but it wasn't…The prophecy also includes that Ephraim will be broken (invaded and conquered) within 65 years (Isa. 7:8) and this is a critical claim and separates the prophecy from the suggestion that guessing can be claimed. So, by reviewing the biblical information, we can conclude that this really was a prophecy that was fulfilled and immune to criticism…Therefore, the key isn't that the Assyrians would invade the northern tribes of Israel, but when they would, which was the prophecy.

I respectfully disagree.

At the time of the prophecy, Tiglath-Pileser was already several years into his reign, which he began by immediately invading the remnants of the old Babylonian empire to the south across a border that had been stable for decades. He also began expanding to the northeast and to the west. Beyond the Hittites in the west, lay Syria, then Israel, then Judah. To claim that Israel would be subjugated within 65 years wasn't a stretch at all. In fact, I suspect that while part of the bribe was for Assyrian help as stated, it was also an offering of goodwill attempting to avoid Judah's subjugation within that 65 years. If so, the bribe didn't exactly work, as fifteen years later, Hezekiah had to withstand an Assyrian siege and (according to Assyrian records) had to pay another tribute to save Jerusalem.

If the prophecy was related exactly as recorded in the Bible, then it seems likely to me that the 65 years was intended as a second reason for Ahaz to make the bribe. "Within 65 years, the country between us and Assyria will have fallen. Now would be a good time to begin currying favor."

Even if we ignore any probability of the prophecies in Isaiah 7 being massaged to fit historical data (scholarly opinion is that Isaiah underwent significant post-exilic redaction and expansion), I think it would be quite difficult to argue that the Assyrian conquest of Israel within a half-century would have been seen as unlikely during the reign of Ahaz.

[FWI]

Let's not confuse discussion of the past with predicting (which refers to the future)

Well, the actual world isn't always the way it seems to be or how some may want others to perceive it. Its fine to have an opinion, but in many cases that doesn't equate into reality…
https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0 ... science_03

Kindly supply examples of 'predicting' past evolution.

In Aristotle’s (384–322 BCE) seminal biological writings, the external teleology of a designer-creator was replaced by an internal teleological purposiveness associated with the immanent action of an internal cause—in living beings their informing soul (psuche)— which functioned as the formal, final and efficient cause of life (Aristotle, De Anima II: 415b, 10–30). Aristotle also did not endorse the concept of an historical origin of the world, affirming instead the eternity of the world order (Physics, I: 192a, 25–34). At least this was how he was understood by a later tradition (Dales and Argerami 1991).
Another issue that Aristotle treated extensively with relevance to the conception of species—embryogenesis—also had important implications for later discussions. In the traditions indebted in some way to Aristotle’s natural philosophy, sexual generation and the subsequent embryological development of the individual from primordial matter, is a sequential process that occurs in time under the teleological action of the soul (psuche). In Aristotle’s own account, this soul-as-form is typically derived from the male parent, but it could also be derived even from the sun, as employed in his explanation of the origin of spontaneously-generated forms (Aristotle, De generatione animalium, III: 762a, 20–35).

However, Robert Plot, the curator of an English museum, described and drew a thigh bone that he believed belonged to a giant man. Although that fossil disappeared without a trace, the surviving illustration suggests that it may well have been part of a "Megalosaurus." This occurred in 1676 and is considered to be the first discovery of a dinosaur bone (drawing).

So, in laymen's terms Aristotle, back in the 4th century B.C. was predicting the origins of life, opposite of the prevailing beliefs! But, from what? Well, the most logical explanation is a prediction/hypothesis (about the past), within his mind. Yet, how and where did these thoughts come from? They surely didn't come from the understandings of the time period he lived in or from the actual Creator of Life! So, what other options are there? Therefore, just like Aristotle, modern evolutionists have predicted the past to try and foresee the future.

Predicting the past (hindcasting) distribution of species climatic

Predicting past distributions of species climatic niches, hindcasting, by using climate envelope models (CEMs) is emerging as an exciting research area. CEMs are used to examine veiled evolutionary questions about extinctions, locations of past refugia and migration pathways, or to propose hypotheses concerning the past population structure of species in phylogeographical studies. CEMs are sensitive to theoretical assumptions, to model classes and to projections in non-analogous climates, among other issues. Studies hindcasting the climatic niches of species often make reference to these limitations. However, to obtain strong scientific inferences, we must not only be aware of these potential limitations but we must also overcome them. Here, I review the literature on hindcasting CEMs. I discuss the theoretical assumptions behind niche modelling, i.e. the stability of climatic niches through time and the equilibrium of species with climate. I also summarize a set of ‘recommended practices’ to improve hindcasting. The studies reviewed: (1) rarely test the theoretical assumptions behind niche modelling such as the stability of species climatic niches through time and the equilibrium of species with climate; (2) they only use one model class (72% of the studies) and one palaeoclimatic reconstruction (62.5%) to calibrate their models; (3) they do not check for the occurrence of non-analogous climates (97%); and (4) they do not use independent data to validate the models (72%). Ignoring the theoretical assumptions behind niche modelling and using inadequate methods for hindcasting CEMs may well entail a cascade of errors and naïve ecological and evolutionary inferences. We should also push integrative research lines linking macroecology, physiology, population biology, palaeontology, evolutionary biology and CEMs for a better understanding of niche dynamics across space and time.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf ... 09.00476.x

Hindcasting (predicting the past) global population densities reveals forces enabling the origin of agriculture.

The development and spread of agriculture changed fundamental characteristics of human societies. However, the degree to which environmental and social conditions enabled the origins of agriculture remains contested. We test three hypothesized links between the environment, population density and the origins of plant and animal domestication, a prerequisite for agriculture: (1) domestication arose as environmental conditions improved and population densities increased7 (surplus hypothesis); (2) populations needed domestication to overcome deteriorating environmental conditions (necessity hypothesis); (3) factors promoting domestication were distinct in each location10 (regional uniqueness hypothesis). We overcome previous data limitations with a statistical model, in which environmental, geographic and cultural variables capture 77% of the variation in population density among 220 foraging societies worldwide. We use this model to hindcast potential population densities across the globe from 21,000 to 4,000 years before present. Despite the timing of domestication varying by thousands of years, we show that improving environmental conditions favoured higher local population densities during periods when domestication arose in every known agricultural origin centre. Our results uncover a common, global factor that facilitated one of humanity's most significant innovations and demonstrate that modelling ancestral demographic changes can illuminate major events deep in human history.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31097799

Hence, it seems to me that predicting what the past was is alive and well in the scientific community, especially evolutionary science.

So, getting back to the question: Does fulfilled bible prophecy prove God's existence? The answer must be yes, because nothing presented up to this point (by those who disagree) has proven otherwise.

[FWI]

My question had nothing to do with whether all Bible prophesies are in error or not.

So, then you seem to be suggesting that there are some bible prophecies that are not in error? If, that's the case, then my position that God exists (because some are) is validated in the comment.

I'm simply attempting to ascertain if you understand the falsification principle.

Then, you should have asked this initially, which you didn't…

What evidence would you need to have in order to know if your belief about prophecies in the Bible is mistaken??

I believe that the question asked was answered.

If you do value the falsification principle

I do not…

[Zzyzx]

.
[Replying to post 36 by FWI]

Hindcast is a scientific method of testing a predictive system by applying it to known events of the past to evaluate its ability to correctly predict an event that occurred. Thus, “Given this data that was known of the hurricane at the time, how well does the proposed system (model) correctly predict its path and strength.�

The event (hurricane) already occurred. Certain data were collected at the time. Would our model have been accurate if applied to that data?

That is NOT an attempt to predict but an effort to test a system intended for use in future predictions.

Hindcast: to test (a mathematical model) by observing whether it would have correctly predicted a historical event www.collinsdictionary.com

Hindcast: a statistical calculation determining probable past conditions (as of marine wave characteristics at a given place and time) www.merriam-webster.com

[bluegreenearth]

My question had nothing to do with whether all Bible prophesies are in error or not.

So, then you seem to be suggesting that there are some bible prophecies that are not in error? If, that's the case, then my position that God exists (because some are) is validated in the comment.

I'm simply attempting to ascertain if you understand the falsification principle.

Then, you should have asked this initially, which you didn't…

What evidence would you need to have in order to know if your belief about prophecies in the Bible is mistaken??

I believe that the question asked was answered.

If you do value the falsification principle

I do not…

I have not suggested that some Bible prophesies are not in error either.

Since you have demonstrated yourself to be doxastically closed, there is nothing that will further progress this conversation. Congratulations, you have placed yourself in a position where it will never be possible for you to discover if your belief is mistaken.

[FWI]

Congratulations, you have placed yourself in a position where it will never be possible for you to discover if your belief is mistaken.

Thank you…I take pride in my ability to reject the psychological nonsense that is pushed onto mankind. I am also grateful that common sense prevails in my life, goals and beliefs. Therefore, I agree that we have little in common. Therefore, I will honor your comment that there is nothing that will further progress this conversation. But, will you?