Why Islam does not clash with modern science, or does it?

[Abdelrahman]

Peace be unto all of you! Believers and Non-Believers alike!

As a Muslim, we put huge regard on scripture not clashing with modern science. We believe that if God created the scripture then it should not contain errors in it when referencing the natural world and what we've come to understand about it.

"Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction." - The Holy Quran (4:82)

Many Christian/Atheist debates exist out there, but I am saddened to see that no atheists debate Muslim scholars who read and write Arabic fluently. When debates are organized between people who don't understand arabic or science it goes no where.

Arabic is my mother tongue. I also speak English at home so I'd say im fluent in both. I am a science university graduate and I love the topic of religion and science.

In Islam, we don't have 'blind faith'. I am not allowed to believe something blindly, I must have reasons. Real reasons. That is why we believe God allowed the prophets to perform miracles - so as to give people a sign. And since we believe the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to be the last prophet, his sign and lasting miracle is the Qur'an. The Qur'an is meant to be a 'sign' to the end of time and I invite all members to reflect on its verses.

I am looking to debate someone on whether or not Islamic scriptural references to the natural world clash with modern scientific understanding!

[MatijaSever]

[Replying to post 92 by Abdelrahman]

You need to take off your goggles of modernity and realize that at one point in history, such simple statements were advanced scientific ideas. And to think that a group of desert bedouins got it right but the great thinkers of the West got it wrong hundreds of years later is pretty remarkable.

It's funny that when Wegener proposed his theory of continental drift back in 1912 no scientists familiar with the Qur'an supported him by quoting the passages you have presented. It took another 20 years for his theory to make any headway and still no Middle Eastern support. But all that aside, the suggestion that mountains move sideways is not really an accurate description of what happens. Tectonic plates, containing the continents, move sideways and where they collide mountain ranges are pushed up. The Qur'an makes no mention of actual land masses moving sideways does it?

That's a really interesting point you bring up! It's amazing to think that a theory so revolutionary in 1912 was so unacknowledged by the scientific community at the time. It's also fascinating to think that the Qur'an has been around for so long yet had no mention of the continental drift theory. But you're right, the Qur'an makes no mention of the actual land masses moving sideways, instead it talks about the mountains being pushed up. That's a great point that really makes you think. Thanks for bringing it up!

[boatsnguitars]

Yes there are similar stories! However, let me explain something. The miracles that are described in scripture were miracles for their times.

Right away, you run into a problem.

What is your evidence they were "for their time"? You've just admitted there are similar stories that clash with modern science. Your immediate claim is that these miracles were "for their times".

Simply provide scientific evidence you are right - or admit that they clash with modern science.

[jackparis]

Islam and modern science share a harmonious relationship, contrary to perceived clashes. The Quran often alludes to natural phenomena, encouraging inquiry and reflection. Many scientific principles align with Islamic teachings, fostering a complementary coexistence. Islam values knowledge and encourages the exploration of the natural world, promoting a mindset where faith and science enhance rather than contradict each other. The compatibility lies in the shared pursuit of understanding the universe, debunking the notion of an inherent conflict.

[LittleNipper]

Psalms 104:5- 9
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Genesis 10:25 & I Chronicles 1:19 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

Peleg is a popular Hebrew name for boys meaning “division.”

[Clownboat]

Islam and modern science share a harmonious relationship, contrary to perceived clashes.

This is a belief claim and is actually quite contested in reality.

The Quran often alludes to natural phenomena, encouraging inquiry and reflection.

Many books do this, making the claim mundane.

Many scientific principles align with Islamic teachings, fostering a complementary coexistence.

And when things don't align, what does that mean?

Islam values knowledge and encourages the exploration of the natural world, promoting a mindset where faith and science enhance rather than contradict each other.

Faith and the scientific method are polar opposites.
Faith is required if a person wants to believe in something that is false, like Big Foot, Nessie or Vishnu.
The scientific method is the best process humans have at arriving at truths. Science claims must be testable, are falsifiable and able to be corrected, unlike faith claims. They don't enhance each other.

The compatibility lies in the shared pursuit of understanding the universe, debunking the notion of an inherent conflict.

The compatibility is imagined. Faith beliefs and the scientific method are opposites.

Science: Here is a claim and here is why we think it is a good explanation. Now feel free to show any mistakes and we will modify or toss it out (like how finding a rabbit in the Cambrian layer would falsify evolution).
Faith: This claim is true, if you choose to apply faith and believe that the claim is true.

Accepting claims via faith is not to enhance the scientific method. It is to ignore it.

[Clownboat]

Psalms 104:5- 9
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.

9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

Genesis 10:25 & I Chronicles 1:19 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

Peleg is a popular Hebrew name for boys meaning “division.”

I want to play!

Deuteronomy 23:1
23 “No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12
11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

Ezekiel 23:19-20
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Leviticus 20:18
18 If a man has sexual relations with a woman during her monthly period, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them are to be cut off from their people.

Did I do it right?

[boatsnguitars]

Notice the Christians aren't weighing in but letting atheist do their dirty work?

Why don't Christians simply prove their religion is the true one and stop all this nonsense?

Because they can't.

[LittleNipper]

Notice the Christians aren't weighing in but letting atheist do their dirty work?

Why don't Christians simply prove their religion is the true one and stop all this nonsense?

Because they can't.

There are Christian archeologists, creation scientists, and everyday Christians who live in an everyday world in which stuff happens. And yet Christian believers find joy and peace that their problems and issues are being taken care of seemingly supernaturally. I cannot help those (and neither can other believers) who simply ignore all sorts of material, historical, and metaphysical events that are put forth to such "non-believer" as proof positive, who then insists none of this this of any value... It's like the evolutionists who insists there is total proof that all living things are related through change over millions of years, and yet cannot answer why seemingly less complex organisms still exist and didn't jump on the bandwagon to be as complex as their dependents? Why is everything seemingly dependent on everything else to one degree or another. And just ask an evolutionist why life exists at all and they inevitably will respond, "That's biogenesis and not my problem."

[Clownboat]

It's like the evolutionists who insists there is total proof that all living things are related through change over millions of years, and yet cannot answer why seemingly less complex organisms still exist and didn't jump on the bandwagon to be as complex as their dependents?

Evolution is a fact that is only rejected by some humans that are trying to protect their preconceived religious ideas.
If you were to study evolution (you really should as it is fascinating), you would learn that if there are no environmental pressures on a population, then there is nothing new to adapt to (no reason for change).

Why is everything seemingly dependent on everything else to one degree or another.

You'll need to phrase this question better.

And just ask an evolutionist why life exists at all and they inevitably will respond, "That's biogenesis and not my problem."

The study of how life began is biogenesis. How populations change over time is evolution. It would be good of you to learn this, less embarrassing too.

[LittleNipper]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #109]

Macroevolution has never been proven and neither has the origin of biological life. They remain a mystery to those who disregard GOD.