Revelation = Someone said so

[Zzyzx]

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Many people, ancient and modern, claim to have been given knowledge directly from or about one of the 'gods'.

How can it be determined if the information they present is truthful and accurate? Did they actually have some sort of experience with a supernatural entity? Could they have been delusional or having an hallucination? Were they deceived? Were they insane? Were they making up a story?

How can truth and accuracy be determined?

Do they gain credibility by being far away and long ago? By being a religious leader?

[1213]

…How can it be determined if the information they present is truthful and accurate? …

I think one way is for example to check are the promises correct. For example in the Bible it is promised that God gives wisdom for people who asks it.

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach; and it will be given to him.
James 1:5

The problem is, what if you don’t then like what you get? Should God give it to you, if He knows you would not want to hear it?

Also, Bible for example is very much about what is good and right. I think it is not matter of belief but matter of understanding. For example, what proof would you need for the claim that murder is wrong?

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 2 by 1213]

For example in the Bible it is promised that God gives wisdom for people who asks it.

Where is the evidence that such promises are kept by God? Is it even possible to tell?

[Zzyzx]

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…How can it be determined if the information they present is truthful and accurate? …

I think one way is for example to check are the promises correct. For example in the Bible it is promised that God gives wisdom for people who asks it.

One could demonstrate this by asking for wisdom and thereafter making posts that reflect great wisdom. So far, believers debating here have not shown evidence of such wisdom. Perhaps they forgot to ask – or they were so far behind originally that even an infusion of celestially-granted wisdom has only produced mediocre results.

If you don't mind answering, have you asked for wisdom?

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach; and it will be given to him.
James 1:5
The problem is, what if you don’t then like what you get? Should God give it to you, if He knows you would not want to hear it?

Are you disputing James 1:5 – that says ALL while you suggest NOT ALL? Do you know more about this than the writer of James?

By what authority do you change 'all' to 'not all' or put conditions on what 'God' will or will not do?

[Purple Knight]

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach; and it will be given to him.
James 1:5

The problem is, what if you don’t then like what you get? Should God give it to you, if He knows you would not want to hear it?

There's a difference between emotional reactions and desires formed by reason. It might make me upset to hear a particular truth, but I still want to.

I want all the truths. I even understand that they make me miserable.

More please.

[youtube][/youtube]

One could demonstrate this by asking for wisdom and thereafter making posts that reflect great wisdom.

That's brilliant. I officially petition God for infinite wisdom. I don't just want a little; I want it all. I want to understand everything, perfectly.

Is that greedy? Is that asking too much? If so, why? It's not like I'm asking for money. What avarice is there in a want for infinite wisdom?

Coins only have value due to the absence of a coin in another man's pocket. Therefore the want for more is the same as the want for others to have less.

But everyone could have infinite wisdom and not deprive anyone else of a darn thing.

[1213]

[Replying to post 2 by 1213]

For example in the Bible it is promised that God gives wisdom for people who asks it.

Where is the evidence that such promises are kept by God? Is it even possible to tell?

I told it as an example of promise that person could test. If I would say it worked for me, you could claim “no it didn’t� and it would not be useful. That is why I think everyone can test it by themselves, if they want to know.

But, why even bother? I don’t think the knowledge that God exists is useful for good, if person would not be, or become righteous. I think Bible is about righteousness, right understanding, not so much about believing that God exists.

[1213]

If you don't mind answering, have you asked for wisdom?...

Yes, I asked wisdom to understand what Bible means. I didn’t ask to be the most wise person on earth.

[bluegreenearth]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

If "divinely reveled" knowledge is reliable, it will make novel testable predictions in the same way the scientific method produces reliable knowledge. For example, let's imagine I believe God divinely revealed to me a very precise and detailed explanation for some observation in quantum physics that has not yet been achieved through the scientific method. Meanwhile, I have no formal education or training in the field of quantum physics. Based on that "divinely revealed" explanation, I should be able to accurate predict the outcome of a corresponding experiment in quantum physics which has not yet been successful using the existing scientific models. If this knowledge is reliable, my prediction will be accurate and reproducible in other relevant experiments.

However, the reliability of this explanation in making novel testable predictions would not demonstrate that it was actually divinely revealed despite my claim that it was supplied by God. This is because, unlike the reliable explanation for the observed quantum physics phenomenon, the divine revelation claim is not falsifiable or testable. Just because I believe God revealed the explanation to me doesn't mean it couldn't have been the product of some other unidentified cause like a "Brain Enhancing Laser Beam" fired at me by an advanced alien intelligence. The God hypothesis wouldn't be any more likely than the Brain Enhancing Laser Beam hypothesis.

[Zzyzx]

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If you don't mind answering, have you asked for wisdom?...

Yes, I asked wisdom to understand what Bible means. I didn’t ask to be the most wise person on earth.

It seems a 'unwise' to seek wisdom for nothing beyond the Bible. Those who have wisdom of the real world seem to have an advantage in life and in debate.

[Purple Knight]

I told it as an example of promise that person could test. If I would say it worked for me, you could claim “no it didn’t� and it would not be useful. That is why I think everyone can test it by themselves, if they want to know.

I did test it, and I think you know I'm honest enough that I wouldn't just lie and say it hadn't worked when it had.

I defend even my enemies and opponents when they come under unfair attack, even if this puts me in the stocks myself. I've defended flat earthers. I've defended Marxists and Anarcho-Capitalists, the tolerant and the racist, the evil and the good.

I put Knight in my name intentionally, so I'd have to live up to it, and defending one's bitter foes even when the wrath meant for them pours out on me, is what I believe a true Knight of Logic would do.

I know it's only words, but I wish I could convey to you how hard this is for me, because I really, really, really hate being dragged through the mud. You're no doubt thinking, oh, it's not hard for him to do that; he's hiding safely behind the internet.

No. No I'm not. Words mean something to me. I would rather you punch me in the face than think me stupid. So no, I'm not safe at all.