Why so low retention and low education?

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Why so low retention and low education?

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Post by Zzyzx »

.
Why so low retention and low education?
Jehovah’s Witnesses have a low retention rate relative to other U.S. religious groups. Among all U.S. adults who were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses, two-thirds (66%) no longer identify with the group.
By contrast, 35% of Evangelical Protestants and Mormons leave their respective groups.

Compared with other U.S. religious groups, Jehovah’s Witnesses tend to be less educated. A solid majority of adult Jehovah’s Witnesses (63%) have no more than a high school diploma, compared with, for example, 43% of evangelical Protestants and 37% of mainline Protestants.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/
Two-thirds LEAVE.

Two-thirds have not gone beyond high school.


What accounts for such a high attrition rate compared to Evangelical Protestants and Mormons?

What accounts for low education rate compared to Evangelical Protestants and Mainline Protestants.?
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Re: Why so low retention and low education?

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

WHY DO JEHOVAHS WITNESSES NOT GENERALLY HAVE DIPLOMAS FROM SCHOOLS OF HIGHER SECULAR EDUCATION?

Although there are of course individuals who have high secular qualifications in various fields, generally speaking Jehovahs Witnesses members do not possess qualifications from higher schools of learning. There are two main reasons for this.
CONVERTS While Jehovahs Witnesses are known to preach to all sectors or society indiscriminatly and do not target any demographic, it is undeniable that those most attracted to their particular message and the lifestyle it entails are by far the majority, humble working class people of modest means. This means most will not have had the means or opportunity to access higher education.

VALUES Jehovahs Witnesses are definitely encouraged to live modest simple lives focusing on spiritual matters rather than the accumulation of wealth. For this reason they encourage their own children not to pursue higher secular education but rather focus on getting only enough education to earn enough to cover their needs and provide for their families (for example by learning a trade)* .

NOTE : While It is not unusual for Jehovah's Witness children to be the top of their class and to be offered scholarships due to high performance, JWs youths are actively discouraged from moving away to live on college campus which are seen as representing a threat to the young person's moral and spiritual welfare.
* " In the JW Broadcasting program of January 2015, Governing body member Anthony Morriss stated the advantages of attending a " technical or vocational schools offering short term courses that result in a certificate or diploma in a trade or service" he also pointed out {quote} "as parents we would be remis if we did not encourage our child to pursue a skill or trade" to support themselves." {end quote}
Evidence seems to indicates the JWs enjoy a relatively high employment rate. : While their general level of formal qualifications is not conducive to elevated levels of affluence, the Jehovahs Witness emphasis on employable skills and solid work ethics arguably contributes to them not suffering from the high unemployment rate that is often a characteristic of those with this level of Education. In a 2016 Australian study (NSW) for example, it was found that the Witness males stood at 94.2% employment rate, while the general male population stood at over just over 70% during the same period. (Compare: NSW Annual Report Women in NSW 2018 pdf p. 18
https://img.techpowerup.org/200623/scre ... 162418.jpg


CONCLUSION While schools of higher learning are sometimes viewed the only way to becoming an enlightened, educated, fully rounded individual, this is not the case. Jehovah's Witnesses are an educated people due to the high emphasis their religion places on voluntary community work, literacy and public speaking (All JWs members follow public reading and speaking classes), foreign languages, international travel and missionary work (JWs run a number of their own bible and trade schools), construction skills, disaster relief and cultural diversity.

FURTHER JW (Bethel) Trade Schools
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 10_6_VIDEO

REPORT Working With Jehovahs Witnesses
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 3_11_VIDEO



RELATED POSTS

Do Jehovah's Witnesses deliberately target particular demographics?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 94#p960294
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


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Romans 14:8

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Re: Why so low retention and low education?

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Post by Overcomer »

As I understand it, there are two reasons JWs are discouraged from higher education. For one thing, they live in this constant state of expectation that the world is going to end so why waste time going to school? Just get out there and witness, witness, witness. However, that church has predicted the end of the world at various times since its inception and has always been wrong. After more than a century of that, I don't think I would have much faith in an organization that is supposed to be hearing from God, but is always wrong about the end times.

Secondly, there is the fear that, if they attend a secular school, what they learn will take them from their faith. So it's a matter of keeping them ignorant -- although they will probably tell you it's for their own good. But how could it be?

The reality is that God gave us minds and talents to use to their fullest. It's what he expects and demands of us. How many young JWs have aspirations for higher education and don't get a chance to pursue them?

And if one is truly connected to Jesus, then all the education in the world, even at the most godless institution, isn't going to break that bond. The person who is truly born-again and Spirit-filled isn't going to be "unborn" or have the Holy Spirit removed from him just because he goes to a secular university. No amount of higher education is going to alter that or cause someone to lose his salvation. It certainly didn't affect me and I graduated from two secular universities with multiple degrees.

And it is higher education that leads many people to Christ. For example, astrophysicist Hugh Ross says it was studying science that opened his eyes to the existence of God.

So I think it's a shame that people are discouraged from higher education in the JW religion.

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Re: Why so low retention and low education?

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Post by Zzyzx »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2]
JehovahsWitness wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:57 am

it is undeniable that those most attracted to their particular message and the lifestyle it entails are by far the majority, humble working class people of modest means. This means most will not have had the means or opportunity to access higher education.
It is not surprising that the JW 'message' does not appeal to those who have more than average level education attainment.
JehovahsWitness wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:57 am

JWs youths are actively discouraged from moving away to live on college campus which are seen as representing a threat to the young person's moral and spiritual welfare.
Fear and discouragement of education is often associated with fundamentalist / traditionalist religion – perhaps with good reason.

How do we explain: “Among all U.S. adults who were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses, two-thirds (66%) no longer identify with the group.” (when other religious groups lose close to one-third (35%)?
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

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Re: Why so low retention and low education?

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Zzyzx wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:27 pm
It is not surprising that the JW 'message' does not appeal to those who have more than average level education attainment.
Yes, I agree with you entirely. Our movement was started by an "uneducated" manual worker who died a convicted criminal and never attended college; hardly something that would appeal to the educated classes.
1 CORINTHIANS 1:26 ESV

For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.
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Romans 14:8

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Re: Why so low retention and low education?

Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Overcomer wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:22 pm
So it's a matter of keeping them ignorant
Are you suggesting Jehovahs Witnesses are ignorant ? If so, ignorant of what? In what way? Would you categorise everyone that doesn't have a college degree as "ignorant"




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS



1 CORINTHIANS 14:20 - GNT

Do not be like children in your thinking, my friends; be children so far as evil is concerned, but be grown up in your thinking.
1 TIMOTHY 6:20 CSB

Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding irreverent and empty speech and contradictions from what is falsely called knowledge.


FURTHER READING Witnesses View Education?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... on-school/
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Why so low retention and low education?

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Zzyzx wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:27 pm
Fear and discouragement of education is often associated with fundamentalist / traditionalist religion ...
Are you suggesting Jehovahs Witnesses "Fear and discourage education"?



JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why so low retention and low education?

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Zzyzx wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:27 pm
How do we explain: “Among all U.S. adults who were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses, two-thirds (66%) no longer identify with the group.” (when other religious groups lose close to one-third (35%)?


There are those that believe people just stay in their religion because they've been brainwashed as children to do so or are paralyzed by social conditioning or fear of change or ostracism from their group. In some counties, Islam for example has near 100% retention rate when it comes to those raised in the faith but one has to wonder if that would the case if the there wasn't a tradition that supported the death penalty for leaving.

Jehovah's Witnesses on the other hand don't force their children to join their faith and once adults they are free to make their own religious choices. Since more than half choose not to follow the religion of their parents it seems leaving the religion of their parents is not a particularly hard thing to do. JWs don't see this as particularly problematic, as our faith isnt passed on genetically.


To gain a more complete picture one does well to differentiate between CONVERT retention figures and the "retention" of those raised by Witness parents.
For more details on this question please see my earlier post.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 21#p982321
The high infant retention rate of various other religions are arguably indicative of childhood indoctriaction, excessive cultural or social pressure or lax counting criteria*
* Contrary to many religions Jehovahs witnesses include ONLY baptized ministers that actively participate in their preaching work in their membership figures.

HOW LOW CAN YOU GO?

To refer to a "low" retention rate implies a rate below what should be expected, however there is no reason to expect that the retention rate for those raised in the faith be much higher than that found any informed adult population. Since it seems reasonable to conclude 40% of informed adults would NOT choose to become one of Jehovahs Witnesses, there is no reason to see that same number as "low" at all when considering an infant retention rate.





JW




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Is the Jehovahs Witness increase due to their high birth rates?
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Do Jehovahs Witnesses suffer from low CONVERT retention levels ?
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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:24 am, edited 14 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Why so low retention and low education?

Post #9

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:36 am

Our movement was started by an "uneducated" manual worker who died a convicted criminal and never attended college; hardly something that would appeal to the educated classes.
Actually, your specific branch of Christianity was started by a man who had worked as both a lawyer and a judge. He died of colon cancer in 1942.


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Re: Why so low retention and low education?

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:01 am
To gain a more complete picture one does well to differentiate between CONVERT retention figures and the "retention" of those raised by Witness parents.
BEST CONVERT RETENTION

In contrast to 20-25% average LDS retention rates worldwide, both the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Adventists manage to retain the considerable majority of new converts.

Short-term baptismal goals, hasty teaching with limited attempt to assess the true depth of the investigator's understanding and commitment, and 'baptize them quick while they feel the Spirit and hope that they decide to come to church again' approaches, have resulted in a 20-25% average LDS retention rates in Latin America and Asia. I have never known of anything good to come of converts being rushed to baptism. Indeed, while rushing baptisms may result in quick, temporary increases in statistics, it also ignites a long-burning fuse nthat results in serious member problems, or even in the eventual collapse of local branches. Perhaps in this we have a lesson to learn both from our own scriptures, from our current prophet (Gordon B.Hinckley: 'it is not necessary for us to lose any of those who are baptized') and from the Jehovah's Witnesses, who take pre-baptismal preparation much more seriously than most Latter-day Saints.

Jehovah's Witnesses would never consider rushing an individual to baptism in two weeks or less: individuals must first prove their dedication to Jehovah and worthiness to serve as his spokesman. As a result, they achieve 80+% long-term retention, compared to an average 25-30% worldwide LDS

source Bruno G. Kamdem, Bruno G. Kamdem CUMORAH REPORT, Best Programs


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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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