Without threats and promises, what does Christianity actually have to offer?

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Zzyzx
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Without threats and promises, what does Christianity actually have to offer?

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

Simple question:

Without unverifiable threats and promises (for 'after you die'), what does Christianity actually have to offer?
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If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"

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Re: Without threats and promises, what does Christianity actually have to offer?

Post #2

Post by Aetixintro »

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Without "promises" (of Heaven and little Purgatory) and "threats" (much Purgatory and 200 years in Hell), Christianity is virtually empty other than the very good effects of a being a moral person in real life! IMO.
I'm cool! :) - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!

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Re: Without threats and promises, what does Christianity actually have to offer?

Post #3

Post by Goose »

Zzyzx wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:02 pm
Simple question:

Without unverifiable threats and promises (for 'after you die'), what does Christianity actually have to offer?
Hope that your life isn't just the byproduct of chance. Hope there is life after death.
"And it is the case that torturing and killing babies for entertainment is immoral." - Goose, Christian

"Is it the case with child torture? Prove it." - Bust Nak, atheist.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 096#846096

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Re: Without threats and promises, what does Christianity actually have to offer?

Post #4

Post by Muffinmayne »

[Replying to Zzyzx in post #1]

A relationship with God. A guide to loving righteously. Lessons from peoples pst mistakes. I like 3’s

Zzyzx
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Re: Without threats and promises, what does Christianity actually have to offer?

Post #5

Post by Zzyzx »

Goose wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:10 pm
Zzyzx wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:02 pm
Without unverifiable threats and promises (for 'after you die'), what does Christianity actually have to offer?
Hope that your life isn't just the byproduct of chance.
Why is that 'hope' important? Do people need that 'hope' to bolster their self-concept? Do they think they are insignificant if chance was the operating mechanism in their conception and birth?

Is it difficult to accept that 'chance' was involved in our parents meeting and reproducing – or that the embryo that became us survived (when In nature, 50 percent of all fertilized eggs are lost before a woman's missed menses. www.ucsfhealth.org AND Two-thirds of all human embryos fail to develop successfully www.sciencedaily.com)
Goose wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:10 pm
Hope there is life after death.
Why 'hope' for life after death? Fear of death? Dissatisfaction with real life?

That 'hope' is based on the 'hope' expressed by ancient writers and upon more recent speculation based on those ancient tales. Has there been any verifiable evidence presented to indicate the 'afterlife' is anything more than imaginary?
.
Non-Theist

If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"

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Re: Without threats and promises, what does Christianity actually have to offer?

Post #6

Post by Zzyzx »

Muffinmayne wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:26 pm
A relationship with God.
Does it make any difference if the 'god' is real or imaginary?
Muffinmayne wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:26 pm
A guide to loving righteously.
Does loving righteously include:

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Ephesians 5:22  Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.

Since Christians have that 'guide to loving righteously', are they more successful in marriage than Non-Christians? (Might consult divorce statistics). If not, why not – with all that gudance?
Muffinmayne wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:26 pm
Lessons from peoples pst mistakes.
How, exactly, does Christianity provide an opportunity to learn from peoples' past mistakes?
.
Non-Theist

If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"

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Re: Without threats and promises, what does Christianity actually have to offer?

Post #7

Post by Dimmesdale »

I'm a Catholic now. I can't deny Jesus Christ's death on my behalf.....

Eternal life, that's what Christianity offers, ASSUMING it is true, and it is my belief that it is....

That said, I also don't believe God is a hardass. The ways of grace are mysterious and deep. They may come to us through strange avenues and diverse streams. But they ultimately come from the same ocean. They come from the ocean of God's love for us as revealed in Jesus Christ, and Calvary.

There are hard sayings in the Bible, and these you regard as "threats." But there is a difference between a "threat" and a "warning." Threats are used by usually domineering or insecure people to browbeat people. But if there is a legitimate danger, then the right thing to do for any reasonable person, be he God or man, is to warn others of the coming ACTUAL threat....

Promises are also not always hollow. If you have a check in the mail from your rich uncle, do you refuse to cash it? Don't you rather desire to be benefited from him? If your uncle is rich, how much richer is God?

Taste His richness, I say. He can be tasted to some degree in this life, as many mystics attest....

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Re: Without threats and promises, what does Christianity actually have to offer?

Post #8

Post by Muffinmayne »

[Replying to Zzyzx in post #6]

I would think it would make a huge difference.

We can discuss what’s righteous and what’s not if you want, but that wasn’t the initial question.

When you have stories about entire nations turning from God or just indulging in heinous acts how are those not lessons?

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Re: Without threats and promises, what does Christianity actually have to offer?

Post #9

Post by Zzyzx »

Muffinmayne wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:59 pm
Zzyzx wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:51 pm
Muffinmayne wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:26 pm
A relationship with God.
Does it make any difference if the 'god' is real or imaginary?
I would think it would make a huge difference.
Thousands of 'gods' were and are worshiped by humans. Which of them, if any, are real and how can that be determined?
Muffinmayne wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:59 pm
Zzyzx wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:51 pm
Muffinmayne wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:26 pm
Lessons from peoples pst mistakes.
How, exactly, does Christianity provide an opportunity to learn from peoples' past mistakes?
When you have stories about entire nations turning from God or just indulging in heinous acts how are those not lessons?
Are the stories true? How can that be determined?

If a person learns 'lessons' from fantasy stories, they have NOT learned from the mistakes of others – but from stories concocted by an author. In that case, there were no mistakes in the real world; only in the imagination of the writer.

If I tell a story about someone making a mistake by believing in gods, can anyone 'learn from the mistakes of others' by reading the story?
.
Non-Theist

If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"

Muffinmayne
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Re: Without threats and promises, what does Christianity actually have to offer?

Post #10

Post by Muffinmayne »

[Replying to Zzyzx in post #9]

You asked a question and I answered. If you want to add more stipulations when you get an answer then I’m not sure why you even asked the question.

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