JWs and "Serious Sins" of the Flesh

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Miles
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JWs and "Serious Sins" of the Flesh

Post #1

Post by Miles »

In reading about Jehovah's Witnesses* I found that among a lot of other things oral and anal sex are considered "serious sins."


Several points:

1) I failed to find any scripture that considers oral or anal sex to be a sin, serious or otherwise. ..... (Perhaps I've missed it. Please help)

2)What differentiates a serious sin from an ordinary sin? ..... (Is it kind, degree, or some other factor?---I've looked but came up dry)

3) I always thought that sins were immoral acts considered to be a transgression against divine law. ..... (If JWs have a different definition I'm all ears)

4) As a divine law, the law can only come from god...... (Are JWs empowered establish divine law?)

5) So what gives? Can JWs make up sins as they wish? ..... (If not, what's the story behind oral and anal sex being a sin, a "serious" sin?)


* Wikipedia: "Jehovah's Witnesses and congregational discipline"


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Re: JWs and "Serious Sins" of the Flesh

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Do you have a source ? A link or reference to Jehovahs Witesses literature?
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES A PRINCIPLE DRIVEN RELIGION

In general terms the Jehovahs Witness belief system is not based on rules that can be quoted verbatim , so we will not necessarily be able to provide a specific scripture prohibiting something we view as unclean or ungodly. We believe that Christian behaviour should be governed bible principle (as well as law), which means a believer must be able to use his critical thinking skills to identify fundamental truths which form the basis for existing laws, when no specific rule exists
The above is the case for anal and oral sex within the boundaries of Christian marriage. Outside of marriage, such activities fall under the category of sexual immorality (fornication) which are specifically prohibited in scripture.

JW


What is fornication (sexual immorality)?
viewtopic.php?p=779896#p779896
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Re: JWs and "Serious Sins" of the Flesh

Post #3

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:13 pm
2)What differentiates a serious sin from an ordinary sin? .....
A serious sin in Jehovahs Witness terminology usually refers to a sin that risks leading to being shunned (disfelowwshipped) from the congregation. Examples of "serious sins" are theft, abuse of drugs or alcohol, assault, adultery, pedophilia, or murder.

I have never read the expression "ordinary sin" in any of our literature nor heard it used by any Jehovahs Witnesses that I know so I cannot tell you what it might refer to.
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Re: JWs and "Serious Sins" of the Flesh

Post #4

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:13 pm
3) I always thought that sins were immoral acts considered to be a transgression against divine law. ..... (If JWs have a different definition I'm all ears)

Yes we do. The Official Jehovahs Witness definition of SIN is as follows:
SIN: Anything not in harmony with, hence contrary to, God’s personality, standards, ways, and will; anything marring one’s relationship with God.

source: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004132
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Re: JWs and "Serious Sins" of the Flesh

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:13 pm
4) ...Are JWs empowered establish divine law?[/color]
No we don't believe so. The Jehovahs Witness position is that all divine law must originate with the Creator as revealed in the bible canon.
Miles wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:13 pm
5) Can JWs make up sins as they wish?
I suppose they could, although there's nothing new under the sun so whatever the made up would probable have been thought of before. If you mean: do Jehovah's witnesses believe they have the authority to declare something a sin, independent of divine law or principle? The answer would be no.
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Re: JWs and "Serious Sins" of the Flesh

Post #6

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:58 am
Miles wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:13 pm
5) Can JWs make up sins as they wish?
I suppose they could, although there's nothing new under the sun so whatever the made up would probable have been thought of before. If you mean: do Jehovah's witnesses believe they have the authority to declare something a sin, independent of divine law or principle? The answer would be no.
In as much as oral and anal sex are considered to be sins by JWs, but are nowhere considered as such in the Bible, I assume JWs made such a determination because the sin conforms to some principle. If this is correct, what is this principle that makes oral and anal sex a sin?

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Re: JWs and "Serious Sins" of the Flesh

Post #7

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:14 am
If this is correct, what is this principle that makes oral and anal sex a sin?
THE PRINCIPLE: Jehovah hates homosexual ACTS which violate the natural order of conduct.

We discern that Jehovah condemns homosexuals for engaging in same sex sexual intercourse and sexual contact; this would involve both anal and oral intercourse, which are both contrary to the obvious natural (design intention) use of these body parts.

ROMANS1:26, 27

That is why God gave them over to disgraceful sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error.
Jude 7 - NWT RB
Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they . . . [had] gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire. The name Sodom has become the basis for the word "sodomy" which usually designates a homosexual practice)



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS





To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SEX, SIN and ...HOMOSEXUALITY
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Re: JWs and "Serious Sins" of the Flesh

Post #8

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:57 am
Miles wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:14 am
If this is correct, what is this principle that makes oral and anal sex a sin?
THE PRINCIPLE: Jehovah hates homosexual ACTS which violate the natural order of conduct.

We discern that Jehovah condemns homosexuals for engaging in same sex sexual intercourse and sexual contact; this would involve both anal and oral intercourse, which are both contrary to the obvious natural (design intention) use of these body parts.
I wasn't thinking of homosexuals engaging in oral and anal sex, but heterosexuals. 88%-90% of heterosexuals engage in oral sex, and 35% to 40% engage in anal sex


..................................Image

Something I find striking here is that women are 64% more likely then men to have/had same-sex contact. I don't think this means women are more prone to be homosexuals, but that they're more open to sexual exploration with one another.

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Re: JWs and "Serious Sins" of the Flesh

Post #9

Post by Difflugia »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:57 am
Miles wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:14 am
If this is correct, what is this principle that makes oral and anal sex a sin?
We discern that Jehovah condemns homosexuals for engaging in same sex sexual intercourse and sexual contact; this would involve both anal and oral intercourse, which are both contrary to the obvious natural (design intention) use of these body parts.
This is textbook question-begging. Paul isn't explicit about what specific forms "natural" and "unnatural" take, so they have to be read into the text (and some might even call them unverifiable assumptions). Reading the imagined specifics back out is an example of circular reasoning.
JehovahsWitness wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:57 am
Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they . . . [had] gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.
That's also something you (and others) are reading into the text, not out of it. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were "very wicked and sinners against Yahweh" (Ge 13:13), but the story of Lot doesn't actually call out anything having to do with flesh, natural or otherwise. The story as it stands can be understood as wrathful judgement against abusiveness and lack of hospitality to strangers. Viewed in concert with Genesis 14 and Judges 19, that's almost certainly what was intended. Genesis 14 describes the kidnapping of Lot itself as the offense of the Sodomites and has nothing to do with orifices. Judges 19 is a story in exactly the same pattern as Lot and the angels, but the moral is explicitly about punishing those that prey upon travelling strangers.
JehovahsWitness wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:57 am
The name Sodom has become the basis for the word "sodomy" which usually designates a homosexual practice)
There's no biblical support for that, though. That's a latter connection based on what is likely an erroneous assumption. To use it as justification for the assumption is circular.

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Re: JWs and "Serious Sins" of the Flesh

Post #10

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Difflugia wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:34 pm

Paul isn't explicit ...
This question was an enquiry about the beliefs of Jehovahs Witnesses, we don't CARE if he has explicit or not.
Please refer to my post on the JEHOVAHS WITNESSES being a principle driven religion
viewtopic.php?p=1016791#p1016791


Regards,


JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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