Atheists it is your turn . . .

[achilles12604]

Ok lets say that God failed miserably. He turns to you and asks you to start over.

Using whatever power you wish to have, how would you create a world of intelligent beings so that you will have a creation which choses to love and worship you.

Here are the only rules . . .

1) You have to obey the laws of the Universe you created because as far as we humans know, these are the only laws that can co-exist. In otherwords you can not create constant contradictions in physics. Example : Gravity can not be violated unless you directly intervene. To violate given laws youu must directly and quite obviously suspend the laws at that given point in time.

2) You can not violate the free will of the creatures to fight against you if they wish. This includes not creating them because not creating someone simply because they will rebel is the ultimate violation of that persons free will. They didn't even get the chance to rebel.

3) Human nature must remain the same. In other words, we have to be of average intelligence and be able to comprehend certain things and be totally clueless about others. We can not possibly know the future, not even 1 second ahead. And human tendency to lust for power, control over our lives, and non-submission to authoritiy figures without a good reason have to remain intact.


Now, given these rules what would you do? How would you interact with your creation? How would you get most of them to desire to love you while at the same time alloing those who wished for the power to run their lives without you, to ignore you entirely?

Points to remember -
-Humans hate being controlled.
-Human's generally are shortsighted and rarely plan for the future (this is why so many Americans have zero retirement and 24000 in debt).
-If a human see's you and your power absolutly directly (like in the OT with pillars of fire and things like this), it will cause even those who otherwise would rebel to follow you out of fear and nothing more. These individuals would never love you. The would simply fear you.

[FinalEnigma]

Ok, to start off. i would not give them free will to begin with. for the first portion of their existence(say 1 lifetime) they would have no knowledge of me. then they would reincarnate with no memory of their first lifetime. in this lifetime, they would receive mild pleasure at the mere thought of me, and and be in ecstacy during church services. they would be completely incapable of not loving me. at the end of their second lifetime, i would talk with them and ask them which existence they would choose, after returning their memories of both lifetimes. this gives them freewill. every lifetime after this i will ask them which existence they want for their next lifetime. to love me and be in ecstasy at the mention of my name, or to have no knowledge of me whatsoever. these two groups would of course be separate.


There. i have created man in a situation where most of them will choose to love me. of course that is the lazy version. its 2 in the morning and im about to go to bed or i would make a more interesting and complete solution.

[Confused]

Shrug.. it shows that there was a cult that claimed that. There were a lot of cults in Judaism at the time.. it was very factured.

And it does not claim the Jesus is God.

Hebrews makes the definitive case the Jesus is God and Messiah from a historical Jewish perpective. You should read it.

The letter of Hebrews is a forged writing that used Paul's name. It is hardly a Historical Jewish perspective. You should not use it as any kind of support.

Wow! If you say so, it must be true! I'll have to go home and tell my wife and kids that Cathar1950 says that Hebrews is a forged writing and not to read it anymore.

It was reconized not to be a pauline writing even by Tertullian , who certainly wasn't modern.

Do some actual research about your claims before shooting yourself in the foot.

How can I be shooting myself in the foot? I never claimed it was written by Paul. Try reading the posts before embarrassing yourself.

Could you guys please be a little more irrelevant. You are arguing scripture and the validity of scripture in a thread about atheism. See the problem here? Take your arguments to the biblical contradictiosn threads.

Why do you have to be so right?
It is funny that scripture is being used against atheist.
What is that all about?
I would rather talk about my lack of a sex life.

Now, lack of sex life is something I can help you with. But I think you better start a new thread for that w/a disclaimer that the content is not for the faint of heart.

[Cmass]

Cathar said: I would rather talk about my lack of a sex life.

Confused said: Now, lack of sex life is something I can help you with.

I've donated 5 tokens to each of you so you can rent a room. (You will have to pick up the tabs for flights between Canada and Florida.)

[Cathar1950]

Cathar said: I would rather talk about my lack of a sex life.

Confused said: Now, lack of sex life is something I can help you with.

I've donated 5 tokens to each of you so you can rent a room. (You will have to pick up the tabs for flights between Canada and Florida.)

That is the best offer I have had in years but being we are at opposite ends of the states I guess I am going to have to become a snow bird and fly south. But 5 tokens is not going to do it. We would like a hot tub and room service and the tokens will not even cover the tips and hush money.

[Cmass]

That is the best offer I have had in years but being we are at opposite ends of the states I guess I am going to have to become a snow bird and fly south. But 5 tokens is not going to do it. We would like a hot tub and room service and the tokens will not even cover the tips and hush money.

OK then, I'll have to get God involved. I'll start praying right away.

[Confused]

That is the best offer I have had in years but being we are at opposite ends of the states I guess I am going to have to become a snow bird and fly south. But 5 tokens is not going to do it. We would like a hot tub and room service and the tokens will not even cover the tips and hush money.

OK then, I'll have to get God involved. I'll start praying right away.

You killing me. I almost tipped my chair laughing.

[Cathar1950]

That is the best offer I have had in years but being we are at opposite ends of the states I guess I am going to have to become a snow bird and fly south. But 5 tokens is not going to do it. We would like a hot tub and room service and the tokens will not even cover the tips and hush money.

OK then, I'll have to get God involved. I'll start praying right away.

You killing me. I almost tipped my chair laughing.

I am sure God could do worse for both of us.

[Confused]

That is the best offer I have had in years but being we are at opposite ends of the states I guess I am going to have to become a snow bird and fly south. But 5 tokens is not going to do it. We would like a hot tub and room service and the tokens will not even cover the tips and hush money.

OK then, I'll have to get God involved. I'll start praying right away.

You killing me. I almost tipped my chair laughing.

I am sure God could do worse for both of us.

I would have to admit to his existence yet, not even close to being there yet. But hey, at least we got Cmass on our side LOL

[Cathar1950]

I wonder about God existence too. I figure she will be ok with it.
I think we should get Cmass to move some place between us and we will move in with him for a few years untill we get on our feet.

[Confused]

I wonder about God existence too. I figure she will be ok with it.
I think we should get Cmass to move some place between us and we will move in with him for a few years untill we get on our feet.

Never did have that father figure growing up. Doubt Cmass would fit . But they say "god works in mysterious ways" LOL