Muhammad, a pedophile or child molester?

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Miles
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Muhammad, a pedophile or child molester?

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.


I rarely delve into the Islamic faith or any of its elements; however, I did happen upon the following which I found rather interesting.

Please know that the events related below don't appear to mark Muhammad as a pedophile as the term is psychiatricly understood, but rather in it's more colloquial usage as a child sexual molester.

"Evidence that Muhammad was a pedophile.

For the Western mind, perhaps the most disturbing fact about Islam is that its founder had a sexual relationship with a nine-year-old girl. Because of this, it has become increasingly popular in some circles to refer to the Prophet of Islam as a "pedophile." This is, of course, extremely offensive to Muslims, who view Muhammad as the ideal servant of God and as the greatest example of what a man should strive to be. Nevertheless, Muhammad’s relationship with a young girl presents a problem for Muslims, especially for those who want to share their faith with others.


The evidence for Muhammad’s marriage to the nine-year-old Aisha is too strong to be ignored.


The problem with the selective and carefully edited defense just given (other than the complete lack of references) is that it ignores the numerous accounts we now possess which record Aisha’s age when Muhammad consummated his marriage to her. Many of these accounts are from Aisha herself. Indeed, the evidence for Muhammad’s marriage to the young Aisha is as strong as the evidence for just about any other fact in Islam. We have copious traditions relating Muhammad’s marriage proposal when Aisha was six or seven years old, as well as his consummation of that marriage when she was nine:

Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated that the Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) married her when she was six years old, and he consummated her in marriage when she was nine years old. Then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Khadijah died three years before the Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) departed to Madina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.

Urwa narrated: The Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years.
Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

.
.
.

ASSESSMENT: While the evidence isn’t enough to condemn Muhammad as a "pedophile," his sexual relationship with Aisha is unacceptable.

Muhammad has been accused of pedophilia in numerous writings, sermons, and conversations. We have seen that the earliest Muslim traditions offer support for this view. However, the evidence sustaining the charge of pedophilia is perhaps too limited to warrant such a harsh conclusion. We know that Muhammad had a sexual relationship with a young girl, and that this was reprehensible. Yet we must take cultural differences into consideration in formulating an accurate appraisal of a person’s character. In Muhammad’s society, sexual intercourse was acceptable when a girl reached menses, and Muhammad may have waited until Aisha had reached this age. (Note: There’s no good historical evidence that Muhammad waited for Aisha to reach menses. However, I think it’s important to be generous in our interpretations as much as possible, so I’m willing to grant, for the sake of argument, that Aisha had reached puberty.)

Similarly, we don’t have enough information to call Muhammad a "pervert." While Muhammad’s sexual acts may seem startling, we don’t know enough about the nature of these acts to condemn him as a sexual deviant or a predator.

Nevertheless, Muslims are too hasty in dismissing Muhammad’s relationship with Aisha. We can’t simply ignore a prophet’s marriage to a nine-year-old girl. Muslims view Muhammad as the highest example of a moral life, but his marriage to Aisha conflicts with that view. If they want to put Muhammad forward as the standard of morality, Muslims need to come to terms with the many questionable things Muhammad did, as well as the awful impact of these actions."
source



So, do you think taking "cultural differences into consideration" is enough to absolve an adult from having sex with a nine year-old (fourth grade) child?

Your thoughts?


.
Last edited by Miles on Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Muhammad, a pedophile or child molester

Post #91

Post by mms20102 »

[Replying to mms20102 in post #0]
A few come to mind...
1. Informed consent
2. Not coerced
3. 18 or above (a bit arbitrary, but for an answer)
4. She's rearranged everything in the house and now you can't find anything unless she tells you where she put it as she rolls her eyes at how dumb you are for not knowing
First, I said what is the standard not what are the requirements and in English
Standard: something used as a measure, norm, or model in comparative evaluations.
Requirement: a thing that is compulsory; a necessary condition.

Second,
Why 18 why not 17 or 16 or 15 or 14 or 13 or 12 or 11 or 10 or 9

Third, prophet Muhammed wasn't marrying a slave that cooks and cleans and arrange he did marry a woman to share life with her, he used to saw his shoes and help his wife in housework in fact the your 4th point should be the reverse if you will do this any woman should avoid you.

Fourth, assuming we agreed upon the age and we agreed that those are the requirements what other requirements prophet Muhammed didn't meet?
Perving on a 9 year old sure fits the description, though I personally hold to 18 or older to not feel like a perv.
Again, I hope you understand what the meaning of standard is by now.
It's a rare 9 year old girl who, while 'mature' enough to give birth, is old enough to be expected to do it.
Hmmmm let's see in the USA alone

https://www.dukehealth.org/blog/when-puberty-too-early
According to the National Institutes of Health, puberty usually begins in girls between 8 and 13 years of age
In English

Usually: under normal conditions; generally.
Rare: (of an event, situation, or condition) not occurring very often.

Let me know if you didn't understand anything and I will gladly explain.

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Re: Muhammad, a pedophile or child molester

Post #92

Post by Diogenes »

mms20102 wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:45 am Here is how you treat women as second-class citizens first of all your objection was sticking a penis on the 9-year-old girl
First according to science was that 9-year-old girl mature at the time of marriage or not and what was the marrying age of males and females at that time?
Why do you blame mefor what Muhammad did?
We have copious traditions relating Muhammad’s marriage proposal when Aisha was six or seven years old, as well as his consummation of that marriage when she was nine:

Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated that the Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) married her when she was six years old, and he consummated her in marriage when she was nine years old. Then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).[2]

Khadijah died three years before the Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) departed to Madina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.[3]

Urwa narrated: The Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years.[4]

Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.[5]

Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.[6]


You destroy your own argument by trying to justify that a nine year old girl was old enough, mature enough mentally and physically and emotionally to have sex with an adult. Any culture or religion that approves this is immoral and hateful. and those who try to justify it are not worth responding to.
___________________________________

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Re: Muhammad, a pedophile or child molester

Post #93

Post by mms20102 »

[Replying to Diogenes in post #92]

Nice try see you next time.

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Re: Muhammad, a pedophile or child molester

Post #94

Post by JoeyKnothead »

mms20102 wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 11:47 am
JK wrote: A few come to mind...
1. Informed consent
2. Not coerced
3. 18 or above (a bit arbitrary, but for an answer)
4. She's rearranged everything in the house and now you can't find anything unless she tells you where she put it as she rolls her eyes at how dumb you are for not knowing
First, I said what is the standard not what are the requirements and in English
Standard: something used as a measure, norm, or model in comparative evaluations.
Requirement: a thing that is compulsory; a necessary condition.
I stand by the criteria I presented.

Do you take issue with any of them being used to determine if a female (woman) should be married?
mms20102 wrote: Second,
Why 18 why not 17 or 16 or 15 or 14 or 13 or 12 or 11 or 10 or 9
Cause I try to maintain some sense of decency.
mms20102 wrote: Third, prophet Muhammed wasn't marrying a slave that cooks and cleans and arrange he did marry a woman...
Perhaps only among pedophiles are little girls considered 'women'.
mms20102 wrote: ...To share life with her, he used to saw his shoes and help his wife in housework in fact the your 4th point should be the reverse if you will do this any woman should avoid you.
The fourth one was an attempt to inject a bit of levity into this sickening debate about grown men marrying little girls.
mms20102 wrote: Fourth, assuming we agreed upon the age and we agreed that those are the requirements what other requirements prophet Muhammed didn't meet?
Leaving that little girl be a little girl, for one.
mms20102 wrote:
JK wrote:Perving on a 9 year old sure fits the description, though I personally hold to 18 or older to not feel like a perv.
Again, I hope you understand what the meaning of standard is by now.
I ain't the one trying to defend a pedophile.
mms20102 wrote:
JK wrote: It's a rare 9 year old girl who, while 'mature' enough to give birth, is old enough to be expected to do it.
Hmmmm let's see in the USA alone

https://www.dukehealth.org/blog/when-puberty-too-early
According to the National Institutes of Health, puberty usually begins in girls between 8 and 13 years of age
As I said, the ability to be a brood mare is no reason to put a little girl at risk of pregnancy.
mms20102 wrote: In English

Usually: under normal conditions; generally.
Rare: (of an event, situation, or condition) not occurring very often.

Let me know if you didn't understand anything and I will gladly explain.
How come you're trying to defend pedophilia?

I fear to know that answer.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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Re: Muhammad, a pedophile or child molester

Post #95

Post by mms20102 »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #0]


Dodging questions and saying I'm right because I'm right is not how people debate.

In the last post all you did was attacking me instead of challenging my points

Tell me please is it your own sense of decency that everyone should follow?! Is this the standard you present in this discussion?

Here's another question in English what is a girl and what is a woman.

Not only you used straw man fallacy and other fallacies, you also ran away from answering key questions claiming that the debate is sickening.

I don't see any real debate here rather imposing self preference as the main standard.

I demand either we have a real debate where ideas are being discussed or this post is closed for making new replies only make the answers at the mid lost

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Re: Muhammad, a pedophile or child molester?

Post #96

Post by Mae von H »

Miles wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:55 pm .


I rarely delve into the Islamic faith or any of its elements; however, I did happen upon the following which I found rather interesting.

Please know that the events related below don't appear to mark Muhammad as a pedophile as the term is psychiatricly understood, but rather in it's more colloquial usage as a child sexual molester.

"Evidence that Muhammad was a pedophile.

For the Western mind, perhaps the most disturbing fact about Islam is that its founder had a sexual relationship with a nine-year-old girl. Because of this, it has become increasingly popular in some circles to refer to the Prophet of Islam as a "pedophile." This is, of course, extremely offensive to Muslims, who view Muhammad as the ideal servant of God and as the greatest example of what a man should strive to be. Nevertheless, Muhammad’s relationship with a young girl presents a problem for Muslims, especially for those who want to share their faith with others.


The evidence for Muhammad’s marriage to the nine-year-old Aisha is too strong to be ignored.


The problem with the selective and carefully edited defense just given (other than the complete lack of references) is that it ignores the numerous accounts we now possess which record Aisha’s age when Muhammad consummated his marriage to her. Many of these accounts are from Aisha herself. Indeed, the evidence for Muhammad’s marriage to the young Aisha is as strong as the evidence for just about any other fact in Islam. We have copious traditions relating Muhammad’s marriage proposal when Aisha was six or seven years old, as well as his consummation of that marriage when she was nine:

Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated that the Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) married her when she was six years old, and he consummated her in marriage when she was nine years old. Then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Khadijah died three years before the Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) departed to Madina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.

Urwa narrated: The Prophet (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years.
Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

.
.
.

ASSESSMENT: While the evidence isn’t enough to condemn Muhammad as a "pedophile," his sexual relationship with Aisha is unacceptable.

Muhammad has been accused of pedophilia in numerous writings, sermons, and conversations. We have seen that the earliest Muslim traditions offer support for this view. However, the evidence sustaining the charge of pedophilia is perhaps too limited to warrant such a harsh conclusion. We know that Muhammad had a sexual relationship with a young girl, and that this was reprehensible. Yet we must take cultural differences into consideration in formulating an accurate appraisal of a person’s character. In Muhammad’s society, sexual intercourse was acceptable when a girl reached menses, and Muhammad may have waited until Aisha had reached this age. (Note: There’s no good historical evidence that Muhammad waited for Aisha to reach menses. However, I think it’s important to be generous in our interpretations as much as possible, so I’m willing to grant, for the sake of argument, that Aisha had reached puberty.)

Similarly, we don’t have enough information to call Muhammad a "pervert." While Muhammad’s sexual acts may seem startling, we don’t know enough about the nature of these acts to condemn him as a sexual deviant or a predator.

Nevertheless, Muslims are too hasty in dismissing Muhammad’s relationship with Aisha. We can’t simply ignore a prophet’s marriage to a nine-year-old girl. Muslims view Muhammad as the highest example of a moral life, but his marriage to Aisha conflicts with that view. If they want to put Muhammad forward as the standard of morality, Muslims need to come to terms with the many questionable things Muhammad did, as well as the awful impact of these actions."
source



So, do you think taking "cultural differences into consideration" is enough to absolve an adult from having sex with a nine year-old (fourth grade) child?

Your thoughts?


.
It’s a reflection of the morals of Mohammed and therefore Islam. If a christian lived the morals of Jesus, he would be a better man than modern men. If a Muslim would live the morals of Mohammed, he’d be a much worse man than modern men.

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Re: Muhammad, a pedophile or child molester?

Post #97

Post by boatsnguitars »

One has to wonder if Jesus was a pedophile, too. Seems to be a core principle of Christianity.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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