Is heaven fun when you know your Mom is in hell?

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:59 pm

If I went to heaven and knew that many of my closest friends, neighbors and much of my family - perhaps even my child - were being tortured in hell forever, I would be tortured myself. In other words, is a heaven experience possible if you know there is a hell and know and love some of the people there?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:58 am

kiwimac wrote:As a Christian I argue that Hell does not exist.

As a Jew, I agree.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:03 am

achilles12604 wrote:
Who knows what occurs at the foot of your creator. I intend to find out however, and honestly it sometimes terrifies me. But still I can't wait.

With luck, you will wait for decades yet.

achilles12604 · Post by **achilles12604** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:41 am

goat wrote:
achilles12604 wrote:
Who knows what occurs at the foot of your creator. I intend to find out however, and honestly it sometimes terrifies me. But still I can't wait.
With luck, you will wait for decades yet.

Well I thank you for your kind words.

Easyrider · Post by **Easyrider** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:48 pm

McCulloch wrote:
Easyrider wrote:It didn't seem to bother Abraham that much in the Lazarus account. I believe God's judgment on unbelievers will be clear and set people's minds at ease because of it.
I guess your argument is that real believers get off on seeing their loved ones in eternal torment, because they know that they deserve it. Nice people!

"Get off"? Where does that come from? Sounds like a self serving argument.

McCulloch wrote: God, the omnipotent loving creator of the universe, loved humans so much that He condemned them to eternal torment if they did not obey his laws. Then in order that he could save a small fraction of them from his own wrath, he sacrificed his own Son. Somehow there is some form of moral goodness in a substitutional sacrifice. But even this great sacrifice is not enough. For those few people to be saved, they must believe in the somewhat poorly documented story of this strange incarnate God, to have eternal life with God.

You're getting worse with time, McCulloch. You're starting to sound like the bitter atheists now.

We don't seen any "poorly documented story." We see one that is redundant and compelling. Christ is Lord. You can continue to reject him but that's a poor plan, based on faulty assumptions that the New Testament accounts of Christ, etc., are not to be believed.

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:17 pm

Easyrider, read Achilles way out of the debate, it is quite clever and does not require statements such as yours.
He simply said - and I am paraphrasing and helping his argument - that the heavenly experience is so orgasmic that you can't feel agony over loss of friends. It is simply not possible. I see this as the only logic route out of this conundrum because if his scenario was not true - and assuming you are empathetic - your experience in heaven would not be very enjoyable.
BTW: He also admitted being terrified of meeting God - which takes nards for a Christian to say because it implies a lot of other things.
Learn from your fellow Christian! Or read more bible so you can answer my original OP more coherently.

franknhonest · Post by **franknhonest** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:24 pm

Easyrider wrote:franknhonest wrote: There are only three possibilities: (1) hell does not exist, (2) people in heaven have no memory of those in hell or (3) people in heaven rejoice over those in hell.

No, there's another option, franknhonest - (4) people in heaven understand why others are in hell, but they don't necessarily rejoice over it.

Get Christ before you die, sport.

Not much of a possibility, Easyrider. If they don't rejoice over it, what do they do? Resent or feel sad about it? But then there would be inperfection or unhappiness in heaven - things the Bible says will not exist there.

franknhonest · Post by **franknhonest** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:25 pm

And I fail to understand the "Get Christ before you die" comment. I can only assume you're an arminian heretic!

Nobody can "get Christ".

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:00 pm

And I fail to understand the "Get Christ before you die" comment. I can only assume you're an arminian heretic!
Nobody can "get Christ".

Get Christ! Get OVER HERE Jesus!! NOW! GET over HERE! I WANT you I NEED you GET over here!

An old saying I made up decades ago comes to mind: The route to humanity is through empathy. Serial killers have little or no empathy. If you maintain your empathy - and thus a key part of your kindness - then you will forever weep for the fallen, tortured souls in hell. The only way out of this is if God removed your memory, or if God removed your empathy. Either way, you would be existing as part of a lie.

achilles12604 · Post by **achilles12604** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:37 am

franknhonest wrote:
Easyrider wrote:franknhonest wrote: There are only three possibilities: (1) hell does not exist, (2) people in heaven have no memory of those in hell or (3) people in heaven rejoice over those in hell.

No, there's another option, franknhonest - (4) people in heaven understand why others are in hell, but they don't necessarily rejoice over it.

Get Christ before you die, sport.
Not much of a possibility, Easyrider. If they don't rejoice over it, what do they do? Resent or feel sad about it? But then there would be inperfection or unhappiness in heaven - things the Bible says will not exist there.

Did you ever address the other possibilities I presented?

Chem · Post by **Chem** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:47 am

It didn't seem to bother Abraham that much in the Lazarus account. I believe God's judgment on unbelievers will be clear and set people's minds at ease because of it.

Kinda leaves out quite a lot of people don't you think?

Debating Christianity and Religion

Is heaven fun when you know your Mom is in hell?

Is heaven fun when you know your Mom is in hell?

p.s.