Why did Jesus have to be male?

[nobspeople]

Along the same lines of the thread here
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38174
Why did Jesus have to be male?
I assume he is though some may debate it if the above thread is any indication about what words mean and what terms were used then as they are now.

But why did God (whatever gender it is or isn't) decide to make a male version of himself/son (whichever you choose to believe)?
Why couldn't Jesus have been a female? Would the sacrifice he's said to have made been any more of less successful?
Was Jesus needed to be male in order to get respect and attention? If so, could this be why God is male?
What was the reason why Jesus was and had to be male?
Or was if simply random?

[Tcg]

To be fair Miles was only presenting a hypothesis.

JW

Well, here's mine and it addresses the O.P. directly and is only three words long:

Because of sexism.


Tcg

[brunumb]

...Adam took a bite because he was convinced it was the right thing to do ..

It amazes me how we can read the minds of long dead, or never existed, people and come up with their thoughts that somehow align perfectly with our beliefs.

To be fair Miles was only presenting a hypothesis.

If you were being fair you would not have connected my response to your comment to one by Miles.

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:53 am
It seems evident both Adam and Eve knew what they were doing was wrong, Eve was tricked into believing she would benefit in some way from that wrong even perhaps escaping punishment ; while Adam, aware of the cost, chose rebellion for his own selfish reasons, throwing his unborn children under the horse drawn chariot. In short, Adam may not have been decieved by Satan but he was deceived by his own selfish desires into believing there can be any benefit from disobeying God.

[JehovahsWitness]

...Adam took a bite because he was convinced it was the right thing to do ..

It amazes me how we can read the minds of long dead, or never existed, people and come up with their thoughts that somehow align perfectly with our beliefs.

To be fair Miles was only presenting a hypothesis.

If you were being fair you would not have connected my response to your comment to one by Miles.

...

Tomatos - tomatos. The point is the same.

[tam]

Peace to you,

What has been illustrated IMO is a story about a god that is all knowing and loves us, except for the fact that in the story it does not seem to be all knowing or loving.

I disagree , the fact is in the story God does seem to be all knowing and loving.

The first 50 examples (out of 238) of God's cruelty as described in the Bible. [Cruelty: the "callous indifference to, or pleasure in, causing pain and suffering.”]

If that is the definition of cruelty, then none of the examples that you give demonstrate cruelty on God's behalf. None of the examples you gave mention God's feelings at all, much less that He felt callous indifference or pleasure.

Genesis

1 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and ... offer him there for a burnt offering. -- 22:2

2 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. -- 22:10

A - These are both one occurrence, not two.

B - God did not let Abraham sacrifice Isaac... and considering that this was about Abraham being WILLING to do what God was GOING to do (sacrifice his son), there is also reason to believe that Isaac was willing (since the promises and covenant continued through him), since Christ was also willing. So yeah, this might have been hard to go through... as many things are hard to go through, but that does not mean that this did not serve a purpose and for the good of Abraham and his ENTIRE household (Abraham, Isaac, Israel - and their offspring).

3 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. -- 38:7

4 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also. -- 38:10

Nothing mentioned about how God felt (or really much at all about the circumstances).

Exodus

5 If thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.--4:23

6 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast.--12:12

7 At midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.--12:29

8 The LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast.--13:15

But never mind that Pharaoh enslaved, beat, killed the people of Israel, including the firstborns? How many times should God have let that go before He intervened?

And there is no statement that God took any pleasure in any suffering that happened. Pharaoh made those decisions, and he made them for himself and for his people, and the slaying of the firstborn came at the end, after God had already proven that He would do what He said in all the previous plagues. And Pharaoh was the first to harden his heart (he knew who the God of Israel was, Egypt had Joseph, son of Jacob, second in command under only Pharaoh himself, over all of Egypt 400 years earlier.... he just hardened his heart to that.)

A great multitude of people who were not Israel saw that Pharaoh was false after this and left Egypt WITH Israel. They were clearly shown what was false: Pharaoh (and whatever other gods Egypt worshiped)... and that the God of Israel was indeed TRUE, and that He does indeed protect His people.

9 The LORD is a man of war.--15:3

Perhaps, though perhaps not in the sense that some are thinking. Christ also makes war against the nations, with the sword that comes out of His mouth (with the truth). And at the final battle, where fire comes down from heaven and devours 'gog and magog' (as written about in Revelation, a battle that does not occur until a thousand years after Christ returns)... these are nations that come to ATTACK the peaceful people who God loves. God is defending His people from direct attack. God did not go hunt 'gog and magog' down... they come after His people, a peaceful people. God fights on their behalf.

Someone who is cruel would not teach people what to do that is right and good so that they do not bring harm to themselves or others (it is up to us if we listen or not); nor would He offer forgiveness for our sins, nor would He have sacrificed His own Son whom He loves for anyone, to save us from Death, much less for those who at that time had made themselves His enemies. Nor would He give His enemies warning after warning after warning, so that they turn and repent, heed Him.

10 He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.--21:15

11 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.--22:18

12 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.--Ex22.20:

15Ye shall keep the sabbath ... every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death.--31:14

16 Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side ... and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.--32:27

17 And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.--32:35

Nothing in there about God's emotions (nothing at all suggesting cruel indifference or pleasure at suffering); and some might want to consider the fact that sometimes something hard might have happened to prevent something WORSE. Meaning more lives might have otherwise been lost.

Remember also though, what God truly desires is mercy, not sacrifice. It is Christ who shows us who God TRULY is, and what God TRULY desires. And not everything written in the law is accurate:

"How can you say 'we are wise for we have the law of [the LORD], when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely." Jeremiah 8:8

Even Christ said 'woe to you scribes'. That doesn't mean the prophets, but rather scribes/copyists.

13 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.--22:24

Maybe some context would help here:

22 “Do not take advantage of the widow or the fatherless. 23 If you do and they cry out to me, I will certainly hear their cry. 24 My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless.

THAT sounds like compassion for the widows and orphans, people who are crying out to Him. Anger toward those who are taking advantage of them. And if we are speaking about literally killing with a literal sword, all God has to do is withdraw His protection from them (the men taking advantage of widows and orphans), leaving them vulnerable to those who want to attack them.

14 Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about. -- 29:20

God doesn't desire animal sacrifice (takes no pleasure in it, no cruel indifference), but it was necessary. It is no longer necessary because of Christ, and so, God is the One who put a stop to it, with His Son.

"I desire mercy, not sacrifice (Christ repeated this) and the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6


When Christ came into the world, he said,

c“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,

but a body have you prepared for me;

6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings

you have taken no pleasure.

7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,

as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”

8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, d“Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.



I did not respond to all the rest of the points because many are covered above (and others are duplicates).



Peace again to you.

[Miles]

It seems evident both Adam and Eve knew what they were doing was wrong, Eve was tricked into believing she would benefit in some way from that wrong even perhaps escaping punishment ; while Adam, aware of the cost, chose rebellion for his own selfish reasons, throwing his unborn children under the horse drawn chariot. In short, Adam may not have been decieved by Satan but he was deceived by his own selfish desires into believing there can be any benefit from disobeying God.

It amazes me how we can read the minds of long dead, or never existed, people and come up with their thoughts that somehow align perfectly with our beliefs. Might as well just write a New Bible and fill in all the gaps for the benefit of everyone that still has any questions.

To be fair, JehovahsWitness was backed into a corner whose only escape was through make-believe.


.

[Miles]

...Adam took a bite because he was convinced it was the right thing to do ..

It amazes me how we can read the minds of long dead, or never existed, people and come up with their thoughts that somehow align perfectly with our beliefs.

To be fair Miles was only presenting a hypothesis.

A hypothesis, I might add, that comes from eliminating the other possibilities

Other Possibility 1. Adam was convinced it was not the right thing to do, but went ahead and did it anyway because . . . . . . . . ?

.....a. He was just that kind of contrary, black-is-white, type of guy.

.....b. He would be better off accepting whatever Eve offered, rather than turn it down and incur her nagging wrath for the rest of his life.

Other Possibility 2. Adam's mind went on hold and, no longer functioning, would have accepted tree bark to eat if Eve had handed it to him.


.

[JoeyKnothead]

To be fair Miles was only presenting a hypothesis.

JW

Well, here's mine and it addresses the O.P. directly and is only three words long:

Because of sexism.


Tcg

Paging Mr. Cam. Call for Mr. Oc Cam on line 1.

[JehovahsWitness]

Other Possibility 1. Adam was convinced it was not the right thing to do, but went ahead and did it anyway

Yes I favor this hypothesis. People do in practice go ahead and do things although they know what they are doing is wrong, even wrong and against their own long term best interests.

... because . . . ?

=> see post #188

[Miles]

Peace to you,

What has been illustrated IMO is a story about a god that is all knowing and loves us, except for the fact that in the story it does not seem to be all knowing or loving.

I disagree , the fact is in the story God does seem to be all knowing and loving.

The first 50 examples (out of 238) of God's cruelty as described in the Bible. [Cruelty: the "callous indifference to, or pleasure in, causing pain and suffering.”]

If that is the definition of cruelty, then none of the examples that you give demonstrate cruelty on God's behalf. None of the examples you gave mention God's feelings at all, much less that He felt callous indifference or pleasure.

Genesis

1 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and ... offer him there for a burnt offering. -- 22:2

2 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. -- 22:10

A - These are both one occurrence, not two.

B - God did not let Abraham sacrifice Isaac... and considering that this was about Abraham being WILLING to do what God was GOING to do (sacrifice his son), there is also reason to believe that Isaac was willing (since the promises and covenant continued through him), since Christ was also willing. So yeah, this might have been hard to go through... as many things are hard to go through, but that does not mean that this did not serve a purpose and for the good of Abraham and his ENTIRE household (Abraham, Isaac, Israel - and their offspring).

3 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. -- 38:7

4 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also. -- 38:10

Nothing mentioned about how God felt (or really much at all about the circumstances).

Exodus

5 If thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.--4:23

6 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast.--12:12

7 At midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.--12:29

8 The LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast.--13:15

But never mind that Pharaoh enslaved, beat, killed the people of Israel, including the firstborns? How many times should God have let that go before He intervened?

And there is no statement that God took any pleasure in any suffering that happened. Pharaoh made those decisions, and he made them for himself and for his people, and the slaying of the firstborn came at the end, after God had already proven that He would do what He said in all the previous plagues. And Pharaoh was the first to harden his heart (he knew who the God of Israel was, Egypt had Joseph, son of Jacob, second in command under only Pharaoh himself, over all of Egypt 400 years earlier.... he just hardened his heart to that.)

A great multitude of people who were not Israel saw that Pharaoh was false after this and left Egypt WITH Israel. They were clearly shown what was false: Pharaoh (and whatever other gods Egypt worshiped)... and that the God of Israel was indeed TRUE, and that He does indeed protect His people.

9 The LORD is a man of war.--15:3

Perhaps, though perhaps not in the sense that some are thinking. Christ also makes war against the nations, with the sword that comes out of His mouth (with the truth). And at the final battle, where fire comes down from heaven and devours 'gog and magog' (as written about in Revelation, a battle that does not occur until a thousand years after Christ returns)... these are nations that come to ATTACK the peaceful people who God loves. God is defending His people from direct attack. God did not go hunt 'gog and magog' down... they come after His people, a peaceful people. God fights on their behalf.

Someone who is cruel would not teach people what to do that is right and good so that they do not bring harm to themselves or others (it is up to us if we listen or not); nor would He offer forgiveness for our sins, nor would He have sacrificed His own Son whom He loves for anyone, to save us from Death, much less for those who at that time had made themselves His enemies. Nor would He give His enemies warning after warning after warning, so that they turn and repent, heed Him.

10 He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.--21:15

11 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.--22:18

12 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.--Ex22.20:

15Ye shall keep the sabbath ... every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death.--31:14

16 Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side ... and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.--32:27

17 And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.--32:35

Nothing in there about God's emotions (nothing at all suggesting cruel indifference or pleasure at suffering); and some might want to consider the fact that sometimes something hard might have happened to prevent something WORSE. Meaning more lives might have otherwise been lost.

Remember also though, what God truly desires is mercy, not sacrifice. It is Christ who shows us who God TRULY is, and what God TRULY desires. And not everything written in the law is accurate:

"How can you say 'we are wise for we have the law of [the LORD], when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely." Jeremiah 8:8

Even Christ said 'woe to you scribes'. That doesn't mean the prophets, but rather scribes/copyists.

13 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.--22:24

Maybe some context would help here:

22 “Do not take advantage of the widow or the fatherless. 23 If you do and they cry out to me, I will certainly hear their cry. 24 My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless.

THAT sounds like compassion for the widows and orphans, people who are crying out to Him. Anger toward those who are taking advantage of them. And if we are speaking about literally killing with a literal sword, all God has to do is withdraw His protection from them (the men taking advantage of widows and orphans), leaving them vulnerable to those who want to attack them.

14 Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about. -- 29:20

God doesn't desire animal sacrifice (takes no pleasure in it, no cruel indifference), but it was necessary. It is no longer necessary because of Christ, and so, God is the One who put a stop to it, with His Son.

"I desire mercy, not sacrifice (Christ repeated this) and the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6


When Christ came into the world, he said,

c“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,

but a body have you prepared for me;

6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings

you have taken no pleasure.

7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,

as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”

8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, d“Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.



I did not respond to all the rest of the points because many are covered above (and others are duplicates).



Peace again to you.

Take it up with the SOURCE I provided.


.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to Miles in post #199]

Yeah, that source has issues. Just simply claiming that there are 200 some odd points shows that they either a) know but don't care that many of those are duplicates... or b) don't know and so have posted in ignorance (which doesn't say much for their analysis).

But you posted it here, so I countered it here. Perhaps there are some things in there that some have not considered.


Peace again to you and to you all.