The adaptation of christianity in the new world

[Confused]

One of the greatest issues I have with most forms of organized religion is how their formats change based on current issues.

For example: stem cell research: All the christians I know say that they are against stem cell research because the cells are harvested from the tissue of aborted fetuses. So it isn't so much stem cell research they are opposed to it's, abortion. But in the same breath, they arent' against organ donation. Because a life isn't being taken to extend anothers. Herein lies the quandry: Abortion is legal and happens, the scientists aren't taking one life to exend anothers any more than they are with organ donation.

Another example, cloning cells. Where exactly is it that scripture says thou shall not replicate what I have created? The earliest thoughts I remember about religion and science was in grade school when my science teacher said that prayer alone won't heal, but god gives us a brain and the tools to heal for him.

Again, the new creation scientists: now it isn't that evolution doens't exist, its just that god created us and set into motion the ability for evolution to occur. Where in scripture can this be validated?

I know this is broad: so let me narrow it down to one central question- How is it that Christians can claim a stand for or against anything moral or ethical in todays world and use scripture as grounds for it? I am not talking about gay marriage, cheating on your spouse, etc etc. I am talking about things like using genetics to pick your childs color of eyes, or the use of condoms to protect against STD's even though they are a form of birth control.

Any insights??

[achilles12604]

One of the greatest issues I have with most forms of organized religion is how their formats change based on current issues.

For example: stem cell research: All the christians I know say that they are against stem cell research because the cells are harvested from the tissue of aborted fetuses. So it isn't so much stem cell research they are opposed to it's, abortion. But in the same breath, they arent' against organ donation. Because a life isn't being taken to extend anothers. Herein lies the quandry: Abortion is legal and happens, the scientists aren't taking one life to exend anothers any more than they are with organ donation.

Another example, cloning cells. Where exactly is it that scripture says thou shall not replicate what I have created? The earliest thoughts I remember about religion and science was in grade school when my science teacher said that prayer alone won't heal, but god gives us a brain and the tools to heal for him.

Again, the new creation scientists: now it isn't that evolution doens't exist, its just that god created us and set into motion the ability for evolution to occur. Where in scripture can this be validated?

I know this is broad: so let me narrow it down to one central question- How is it that Christians can claim a stand for or against anything moral or ethical in todays world and use scripture as grounds for it? I am not talking about gay marriage, cheating on your spouse, etc etc. I am talking about things like using genetics to pick your childs color of eyes, or the use of condoms to protect against STD's even though they are a form of birth control.

Any insights??

Well I would say it depends on the topic being discussed and the experiences of that particular individual. As with many things, no one agrees on everything. Let me go through your examples and perhaps you'll see what I mean.

For example: stem cell research: All the christians I know say that they are against stem cell research because the cells are harvested from the tissue of aborted fetuses. So it isn't so much stem cell research they are opposed to it's, abortion. But in the same breath, they arent' against organ donation. Because a life isn't being taken to extend anothers. Herein lies the quandry: Abortion is legal and happens, the scientists aren't taking one life to exend anothers any more than they are with organ donation.

I am not against stem cell research per se however I am against creating embryos just to harvest them. I don't know how true it is but I heard from a couple different places that scientists have yet to learn anything new using stem cells from an embryo but that they have made terrific advances using stem cells from bone marrow and other places like this. This aside however, Your analysis of what I would be against or for as a christian is correct. I am generally against embryonic stem cell research and for organ donation. However, there is a huge reason why. Organ donors have the ability to chose to give up their parts. I don't recall the embryo being asked for permission to kill it in order to learn something. In one case the participant choses to give. In the other, we simply take what we want and the rest dies. Big difference and I would be surprised if you didn't understand the difference between them. Hence I can be for research and science as well as giving organs and at the same time be agaisnt cultivating human embryos to do research on.

Another example, cloning cells. Where exactly is it that scripture says thou shall not replicate what I have created? The earliest thoughts I remember about religion and science was in grade school when my science teacher said that prayer alone won't heal, but god gives us a brain and the tools to heal for him.

I personally am not at all against cloning. I find it very interesting and the medical and scientific aspects of it are potentially limitless. I know some Christians are against science pursuing this path but then again some people were against Galelio and Coppernicus as well.

Again, the new creation scientists: now it isn't that evolution doens't exist, its just that god created us and set into motion the ability for evolution to occur. Where in scripture can this be validated?

You are assuming that the Bible is a science textbook. This is not something the bible claims to be. It does not insinuate that it has scientific answers throughout its pages. Therefore, why SHOULD it say anything about evolution?

Incidentlly, this being said, the account in genesis matches what the fossil record has shown concerning the emergence of life. First nothing, then atmosphere, then land water seperation and plant life, then small animals then more complex animals then humans.

Kinda cool for a book written before some cultures had invented the wheel.


In general I don't think that there is any inherant problem with believing in both religion and science. I also do not see any issues between the scriptures and new discoveries in todays world. The fact that Christianity has survived so many amazing changes and such scientific advancement shows that it has teachings that can apply to any generation. (Yes I know this applies to Islam and Buddha and the others as well, but hey, they all have some good ideas.)

[FinalEnigma]

achilies12604:
Incidentlly, this being said, the account in genesis matches what the fossil record has shown concerning the emergence of life. First nothing, then atmosphere, then land water seperation and plant life, then small animals then more complex animals then humans.

i know this isnt the place to be bringin this up but thats the exact process that would happen for life to occur on a planet w/o divine intervention.

[achilles12604]

achilies12604:
Incidentlly, this being said, the account in genesis matches what the fossil record has shown concerning the emergence of life. First nothing, then atmosphere, then land water seperation and plant life, then small animals then more complex animals then humans.

i know this isnt the place to be bringin this up but thats the exact process that would happen for life to occur on a planet w/o divine intervention.

It's also the exact process that would have happened with divine intervention. Science can not disprove God. It can mearly show how he did it. Besides, don't you think it is interesting that people with ZERO knowledge of the past billion year somehow got the order right?

[Confused]

Well I would say it depends on the topic being discussed and the experiences of that particular individual. As with many things, no one agrees on everything. Let me go through your examples and perhaps you'll see what I mean.

For example: stem cell research: All the christians I know say that they are against stem cell research because the cells are harvested from the tissue of aborted fetuses. So it isn't so much stem cell research they are opposed to it's, abortion. But in the same breath, they arent' against organ donation. Because a life isn't being taken to extend anothers. Herein lies the quandry: Abortion is legal and happens, the scientists aren't taking one life to exend anothers any more than they are with organ donation.
I am not against stem cell research per se however I am against creating embryos just to harvest them. I don't know how true it is but I heard from a couple different places that scientists have yet to learn anything new using stem cells from an embryo but that they have made terrific advances using stem cells from bone marrow and other places like this. This aside however, Your analysis of what I would be against or for as a christian is correct. I am generally against embryonic stem cell research and for organ donation. However, there is a huge reason why. Organ donors have the ability to chose to give up their parts. I don't recall the embryo being asked for permission to kill it in order to learn something. In one case the participant choses to give. In the other, we simply take what we want and the rest dies. Big difference and I would be surprised if you didn't understand the difference between them. Hence I can be for research and science as well as giving organs and at the same time be agaisnt cultivating human embryos to do research on.

I understand the difference you are making reference to, but the fact of the matter is, abortion is legal and a fetus <6 wks gestation by definition is not life. Stem cell harvesting from embryos >6 wks gestation isn't prefered because cells have already started to differentiate and are starting to become indentified as specific to the fetus, therby making it less ideal to use because should we be able to direct the cell to become something like a neural cell, the host it was implanted into would recognize it as foreign and attack it (host vs donor) making it necessary for anti rejection medications. Prior to 6 wks gestation these cells still aren't marked therefore they can theoretically be placed into a host and not be seen as foreign to the immune system. Stem cells from bone marrow etc are also limited because once again, the cell is already marked specific, transplant it into a donor and w/out rejection meds, it will be attacked. And still, the applications for these types of stem cells are usually very limited. Now as for the developments made w/ fetal stem cells, the possibilities are endless, unfortunately, w/o govt funding, only the private sector is doing research therefore, they only do what will be profitable. But regardless, your objection is to abortion: where in scripture is abortion even addressed? And does this apply to the morning after pill for rape victims, codoms to prevent pregnancy. In regards to organ donation: I doubt the person who died asked to die, and many times it is the family who makes the decision to donate, not the pt.

Another example, cloning cells. Where exactly is it that scripture says thou shall not replicate what I have created? The earliest thoughts I remember about religion and science was in grade school when my science teacher said that prayer alone won't heal, but god gives us a brain and the tools to heal for him.

I personally am not at all against cloning. I find it very interesting and the medical and scientific aspects of it are potentially limitless. I know some Christians are against science pursuing this path but then again some people were against Galelio and Coppernicus as well.

Very open minded of you.

Again, the new creation scientists: now it isn't that evolution doens't exist, its just that god created us and set into motion the ability for evolution to occur. Where in scripture can this be validated?

You are assuming that the Bible is a science textbook. This is not something the bible claims to be. It does not insinuate that it has scientific answers throughout its pages. Therefore, why SHOULD it say anything about evolution?

No, I don't assume its a science textbook, I just want to understand how christianity is adapting its views to suit todays society. I mean, to say this 400 years ago would be considered heresy and you would be burned/tortured/whatever. How is it ok to say it now?

Incidentlly, this being said, the account in genesis matches what the fossil record has shown concerning the emergence of life. First nothing, then atmosphere, then land water seperation and plant life, then small animals then more complex animals then humans.

Kinda cool for a book written before some cultures had invented the wheel.


In general I don't think that there is any inherant problem with believing in both religion and science. I also do not see any issues between the scriptures and new discoveries in todays world. The fact that Christianity has survived so many amazing changes and such scientific advancement shows that it has teachings that can apply to any generation. (Yes I know this applies to Islam and Buddha and the others as well, but hey, they all have some good ideas.)

I agree it's quiet a conincidence, but once again, I don't think I have read anything about evolution, adaptation, etc in the bible. There was air, water, earth, atmosphere, man, animal, plants, etc etc etc... But nothing became something else. In other words, fossils of dinosaurs-then none-then fossils of horses. Not to say that dinosaurs evolved into horses or anything even remotely similar, but when did god decide to make horses and add them to the list of creation? See where I am going with this?

[achilles12604]

Well I would say it depends on the topic being discussed and the experiences of that particular individual. As with many things, no one agrees on everything. Let me go through your examples and perhaps you'll see what I mean.

For example: stem cell research: All the christians I know say that they are against stem cell research because the cells are harvested from the tissue of aborted fetuses. So it isn't so much stem cell research they are opposed to it's, abortion. But in the same breath, they arent' against organ donation. Because a life isn't being taken to extend anothers. Herein lies the quandry: Abortion is legal and happens, the scientists aren't taking one life to exend anothers any more than they are with organ donation.
I am not against stem cell research per se however I am against creating embryos just to harvest them. I don't know how true it is but I heard from a couple different places that scientists have yet to learn anything new using stem cells from an embryo but that they have made terrific advances using stem cells from bone marrow and other places like this. This aside however, Your analysis of what I would be against or for as a christian is correct. I am generally against embryonic stem cell research and for organ donation. However, there is a huge reason why. Organ donors have the ability to chose to give up their parts. I don't recall the embryo being asked for permission to kill it in order to learn something. In one case the participant choses to give. In the other, we simply take what we want and the rest dies. Big difference and I would be surprised if you didn't understand the difference between them. Hence I can be for research and science as well as giving organs and at the same time be agaisnt cultivating human embryos to do research on.

I understand the difference you are making reference to, but the fact of the matter is, abortion is legal and a fetus <6 wks gestation by definition is not life. Stem cell harvesting from embryos >6 wks gestation isn't prefered because cells have already started to differentiate and are starting to become indentified as specific to the fetus, therby making it less ideal to use because should we be able to direct the cell to become something like a neural cell, the host it was implanted into would recognize it as foreign and attack it (host vs donor) making it necessary for anti rejection medications. Prior to 6 wks gestation these cells still aren't marked therefore they can theoretically be placed into a host and not be seen as foreign to the immune system. Stem cells from bone marrow etc are also limited because once again, the cell is already marked specific, transplant it into a donor and w/out rejection meds, it will be attacked. And still, the applications for these types of stem cells are usually very limited. Now as for the developments made w/ fetal stem cells, the possibilities are endless, unfortunately, w/o govt funding, only the private sector is doing research therefore, they only do what will be profitable. But regardless, your objection is to abortion: where in scripture is abortion even addressed? And does this apply to the morning after pill for rape victims, codoms to prevent pregnancy. In regards to organ donation: I doubt the person who died asked to die, and many times it is the family who makes the decision to donate, not the pt.

Another example, cloning cells. Where exactly is it that scripture says thou shall not replicate what I have created? The earliest thoughts I remember about religion and science was in grade school when my science teacher said that prayer alone won't heal, but god gives us a brain and the tools to heal for him.

I personally am not at all against cloning. I find it very interesting and the medical and scientific aspects of it are potentially limitless. I know some Christians are against science pursuing this path but then again some people were against Galelio and Coppernicus as well.

Very open minded of you.

Again, the new creation scientists: now it isn't that evolution doens't exist, its just that god created us and set into motion the ability for evolution to occur. Where in scripture can this be validated?

You are assuming that the Bible is a science textbook. This is not something the bible claims to be. It does not insinuate that it has scientific answers throughout its pages. Therefore, why SHOULD it say anything about evolution?

No, I don't assume its a science textbook, I just want to understand how christianity is adapting its views to suit todays society. I mean, to say this 400 years ago would be considered heresy and you would be burned/tortured/whatever. How is it ok to say it now?

Incidentlly, this being said, the account in genesis matches what the fossil record has shown concerning the emergence of life. First nothing, then atmosphere, then land water seperation and plant life, then small animals then more complex animals then humans.

Kinda cool for a book written before some cultures had invented the wheel.


In general I don't think that there is any inherant problem with believing in both religion and science. I also do not see any issues between the scriptures and new discoveries in todays world. The fact that Christianity has survived so many amazing changes and such scientific advancement shows that it has teachings that can apply to any generation. (Yes I know this applies to Islam and Buddha and the others as well, but hey, they all have some good ideas.)

I agree it's quiet a conincidence, but once again, I don't think I have read anything about evolution, adaptation, etc in the bible. There was air, water, earth, atmosphere, man, animal, plants, etc etc etc... But nothing became something else. In other words, fossils of dinosaurs-then none-then fossils of horses. Not to say that dinosaurs evolved into horses or anything even remotely similar, but when did god decide to make horses and add them to the list of creation? See where I am going with this?

Honestly . . . no. Now I am confused. Are you saying because God didn't specifically list every creature and its entire heredity that Christians can't interpret this when reading the bible?

[Confused]

I agree it's quiet a conincidence, but once again, I don't think I have read anything about evolution, adaptation, etc in the bible. There was air, water, earth, atmosphere, man, animal, plants, etc etc etc... But nothing became something else. In other words, fossils of dinosaurs-then none-then fossils of horses. Not to say that dinosaurs evolved into horses or anything even remotely similar, but when did god decide to make horses and add them to the list of creation? See where I am going with this?

Honestly . . . no. Now I am confused. Are you saying because God didn't specifically list every creature and its entire heredity that Christians can't interpret this when reading the bible?[/quote][/quote]


No, I am wondering how it is that christianity has adapted it's beliefs to suit todays society. Not just in regards to evolution. If god created man, then he created dna, dna is constantly mutating, most mutations are fatal, some are beneficial. It is these beneficial ones that allow us to adapt (ie. immunity). If god created man, dna, mutation etc then he created evolution right? So species exist today that didn't at creation. Hence the new evolution creationists. But nowhere in the bible is there any mention of god starting the process to allow for humans to change, species to change, etc. That is just one example.

Where is it mentioned that abortion is a sin? Where is it mentioned that cloning is "playing god", where is it mentioned that killing during war is right or wrong, where does it mention that any faith other than the Jewish is even worthy of god/heaven? Where does it say that if you confess your sins to a priest, and are truly repentent, that priest/preacher etc can grant you absolution? Where does it say that birth control is a sin? Where does it say it is ok to terminate a pregnancy when the mothers life is in danger such as with an ectopic pregnancy where fetus isn't viable because it is in the fallopian tubes and not the uterus but if you wait another week of so, the tube will perforate and the mother and baby will die if the pregnancy isnt' terminated (that is assuming it says in the bible abortion is wrong to begin with). Where does it say stealing an apple when you are starving is ok? Where does it say that altering a genetic sequence to determine the sex of your child or characteristics is wrong? Where does it say watching pornography is wrong (though I know participating is). Is there a distinction made between being evil or being possessed (because if you are possessed, then you aren't responsible for breaking gods commandments, but if you are just evil or immoral then you are). This is what I am trying to get at.

[achilles12604]

I agree it's quiet a conincidence, but once again, I don't think I have read anything about evolution, adaptation, etc in the bible. There was air, water, earth, atmosphere, man, animal, plants, etc etc etc... But nothing became something else. In other words, fossils of dinosaurs-then none-then fossils of horses. Not to say that dinosaurs evolved into horses or anything even remotely similar, but when did god decide to make horses and add them to the list of creation? See where I am going with this?

Honestly . . . no. Now I am confused. Are you saying because God didn't specifically list every creature and its entire heredity that Christians can't interpret this when reading the bible?

No, I am wondering how it is that christianity has adapted it's beliefs to suit todays society. Not just in regards to evolution. If god created man, then he created dna, dna is constantly mutating, most mutations are fatal, some are beneficial. It is these beneficial ones that allow us to adapt (ie. immunity). If god created man, dna, mutation etc then he created evolution right? So species exist today that didn't at creation. Hence the new evolution creationists. But nowhere in the bible is there any mention of god starting the process to allow for humans to change, species to change, etc. That is just one example.

Where is it mentioned that abortion is a sin? Where is it mentioned that cloning is "playing god", where is it mentioned that killing during war is right or wrong, where does it mention that any faith other than the Jewish is even worthy of god/heaven? Where does it say that if you confess your sins to a priest, and are truly repentent, that priest/preacher etc can grant you absolution? Where does it say that birth control is a sin? Where does it say it is ok to terminate a pregnancy when the mothers life is in danger such as with an ectopic pregnancy where fetus isn't viable because it is in the fallopian tubes and not the uterus but if you wait another week of so, the tube will perforate and the mother and baby will die if the pregnancy isnt' terminated (that is assuming it says in the bible abortion is wrong to begin with). Where does it say stealing an apple when you are starving is ok? Where does it say that altering a genetic sequence to determine the sex of your child or characteristics is wrong? Where does it say watching pornography is wrong (though I know participating is). Is there a distinction made between being evil or being possessed (because if you are possessed, then you aren't responsible for breaking gods commandments, but if you are just evil or immoral then you are). This is what I am trying to get at.

You have met a lot of catholics havn't you?

Ok question by question . . .

No, I am wondering how it is that christianity has adapted it's beliefs to suit todays society. Not just in regards to evolution. If god created man, then he created dna, dna is constantly mutating, most mutations are fatal, some are beneficial. It is these beneficial ones that allow us to adapt (ie. immunity). If god created man, dna, mutation etc then he created evolution right? So species exist today that didn't at creation. Hence the new evolution creationists. But nowhere in the bible is there any mention of god starting the process to allow for humans to change, species to change, etc. That is just one example.

Why would you expect the bible to spell out things which have little or nothing to do with slavation? This is a trap a lot of non-theists fall into. . .

"The bible doesn't answer my specific question or point, Therefore it is all useless and entirely false." Pardon me, but this attitude is very arrogant. It implies that that person is the single most important thing in the universe and that God and his message should conform to exact specifications for this individual. The bible speaks of god creating. It even speaks about the steps God took. Just because it doesn't explain that he did it via Genetic sequencing et al, doesn't prove that it is false. If you began to tell Moses about evolution and DNA sequences would he have even been able to write it down? No one would have understood that, but they could understand how certain creatures were created and in what order and their place in life. All these points are addressed. Some people look WAY to hard for specific answers to their daily lives. when they don't find out if they should date Tom or not, they give up on the bible. Talk about throwing away the baby.

Where is it mentioned that abortion is a sin?

Exodus 21: 22-25
22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Where is it mentioned that cloning is "playing god",

It doesn't that I am aware. Hence I am not against it.

where is it mentioned that killing during war is right or wrong,

There are no direct verses about killing during war times. However, God did instruct the Hebrews to defend themselves and yes even to attack. This is where the idea comes from that killing during war falls under a different pretext than murder. While I do not agree that going to war just to advance yourself onto other nations is "good" I have ZERO problem kicking the **** out of people who attack me first.

where does it mention that any faith other than the Jewish is even worthy of god/heaven?

Exodus 20
3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Exodus 23
13 "Be careful to do everything I have said to you. Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips.

John 14
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Where does it say that if you confess your sins to a priest, and are truly repentent, that priest/preacher etc can grant you absolution?

I think this idea comes from Romans 10:10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

However, notice that the priest thing is specificaly not mentioned. the catholic church added in these rules in order to gain financial, economic and spiritual power over masses of uneducated "normal" people. honestly I think that Catholic church did so much harm to True Christianity that it can never be the same. A suggestion. If it is catholic in nature, be very cautious and investigate if it is truely biblical in nature. Much of what they offer borders on EVIL.

Where does it say that birth control is a sin?

It doesn't. Catholics again. I don't follow it.

Where does it say it is ok to terminate a pregnancy when the mothers life is in danger such as with an ectopic pregnancy where fetus isn't viable because it is in the fallopian tubes and not the uterus but if you wait another week of so, the tube will perforate and the mother and baby will die if the pregnancy isnt' terminated (that is assuming it says in the bible abortion is wrong to begin with).

Try the book of Indiana Jones. Chapter 3 verse 67.

You are rather specific arn't you? Ok . . . The bible will never have every specific answer to every specific question. Take what it has and figure it out. In this example, it is simple common sense. If the pregnancy is dangerous and the end result will probably kill everyone, then isn't it in the best interest to save whom we can? Common sense?

Where does it say stealing an apple when you are starving is ok?

It doesn't. It says work for what you get. However, consider that there is also forgivness offered for sins so then if I were in that situation I would weigh forgivness for committing a sin against starving to death. I don't think God would have a problem seeing past that particular sin. Remember that books are rigid, but judges are not. They can make decisions which contradict law books in any case with special circumstances. If human judges have this ability, why wouldn't god be able to make his own choices on a case by case basis? Don't lock God into a bible shaped box.

Where does it say that altering a genetic sequence to determine the sex of your child or characteristics is wrong?

It doesn't. I have no problem with it.

Where does it say watching pornography is wrong (though I know participating is).

Matthew 5
28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


Romans 1:27
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

There are a few more places.

Is there a distinction made between being evil or being possessed (because if you are possessed, then you aren't responsible for breaking gods commandments, but if you are just evil or immoral then you are).

Matthew 12:35
The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.

Luke 6:45
The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

Seems God can judge a persons heart, not just their actions.

This is what I am trying to get at.

It seems to me that once again the Christian church is its own worst enemy. Catholic judgement in particular seems to have caused you a great deal of harm. I sincerly hope that oneday you will be able to see past the hatred and judgemental glasses that the Catholic church and other churches you have been to have used against you and forced you to wear. The teachings of many churches is so far from what Jesus taught it is amazing.

PS Have you ever actually read through just the teachings of Jesus? He really has some wise and very simple words. I think you may enjoy it for what it is worth.

[melikio]

Why would you expect the bible to spell out things which have little or nothing to do with slavation? This is a trap a lot of non-theists fall into. . .

No, it isn't a "trap". And I didn't even consider being a non-theist until about 5 years ago.

To say or imply that the "Bible" is so exclusively about "salvation" that other things (like human sexuality) are unimportant, is (I would think) a major contributor to many of the existing argument over/about religion (or Christianity) itself.

And it needs to be noted, that MANY teachers and authors use the "Bible" to support (their) views which may certainly not be directly related to "salvation". So, it doesn't surprise me that many are taught to seek answers from a book that may not actually have them. I understand how the Bible could be a spiritual guidebook, but I hardly believe/think it answers all the questions some people "believe" it does (about this reality).

Having said all that, Christianity has been "adapted" to the "times" (eras) in which believers live. Many (perhaps all) religions have done the same. As knowledge of things change, so do the belief systems within the societies which embrace them. And that is one reason why religious extremists DO want control over what is taught, and also control over the manner in which people are taught (even things they might approve of).

Christianity (certain aspects of it) has certainly morphed over time/space. The debates over what has actually changed and/or how significant those changes are do rage on amongst many human beings. And as much as I fought "science" before in my younger years (because it appeared to be a threat to my faith), I later began to understand the value of NOT thinking that "faith" is truly an answer to every question which seems "unanswerable". And while there are certainly other factors which can change the anatomy of certain belief systems, science (even unwittingly) can have (and likely has had) the most profound effect of all.

-Mel-

[melikio]

I know this is broad: so let me narrow it down to one central question- How is it that Christians can claim a stand for or against anything moral or ethical in todays world and use scripture as grounds for it? I am not talking about gay marriage, cheating on your spouse, etc etc. I am talking about things like using genetics to pick your childs color of eyes, or the use of condoms to protect against STD's even though they are a form of birth control.

You were correct in pointing out the "width" of this subject and others related to Christianity (or religion in general).

I've seen very smart, very spiritual and very educated people come up with DIFFERENT answers from their knowledge, personal faith, sects, traditions and the Bible itself. I am not shocked (anymore) that people argue or believe differently. In fact, the only thing (to me) about Christianity which seems "consistent", are the principles of LOVE Jesus spoke of and illustrated (with His very life). Beyond that, I've seen people rationalize and justify nearly ANY position which can be taken from the Bible.

Scholars agree and disagree; and all individual human beings can do, is decide (under the umbrella of God's grace) what is true.

-Mel-