The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #1061]

The Atonement is extremely important, and I have been showing why, what it accomplished and for whom. Any acceptable obedience and worship to God should be from right views of what He has accomplished through Jesus Christ.

I don’t see where you showed the point where any of the Bible writers say it’s extremely important to understand how and why. You explained the atonement but not where anyone but you says it’s extremely important.

Now if you cannot guess, I disagree. I, myself, experienced forgiveness and cleansing of sin as a child. I had no understanding whatsoever about the atonement theology but I knew I was forgiven. I think that’s extremely important.

It’s like this. You tell us it’s extremely important that we understand the physiology and biochemistry of digestion in order to feed our bodies. I say it’s just important that you eat.

Jesus said this, “this is eternal life, that they know (and understand) You, the One True God,” not that they understand exactly how the atonement works.

No one "knows the Father, except the son, and anyone to whom the son wills to reveal Him". (Mt 11:27). As for knowledge of the atonement, there are two sides of that coin. The message taught by the Gentile church, the "message" given by the "enemy" (Mt 13:24-25), the false gospel of grace, and the "message" given by the "son of man", which leads to life. The message of the "son of man" was the unveiling of the Law and the prophets, which would include understanding the concept of the Feast of Atonement, which is where the sins of Israel are transferred to the scape goat, who portrays the "devil". The feast of Atonement is with respect to repentance, and the forgiveness of sins, such as the washing of the high priest, and the transfer of Israel's sins to the scape goat, the devil, who was turned out into the wilderness, or in the case of Rev 20:3, threw into the abyss, and locked in for 1000 years. Later to be tossed into the lake of fire (Rev 20:10).
https://as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/05/57/94/9 ... 1fIAUY.jpg

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #1070]

Not in my mind. I cant help whats in your mind

[Mae von H]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #1061]

The Atonement is extremely important, and I have been showing why, what it accomplished and for whom. Any acceptable obedience and worship to God should be from right views of what He has accomplished through Jesus Christ.

I don’t see where you showed the point where any of the Bible writers say it’s extremely important to understand how and why. You explained the atonement but not where anyone but you says it’s extremely important.

Now if you cannot guess, I disagree. I, myself, experienced forgiveness and cleansing of sin as a child. I had no understanding whatsoever about the atonement theology but I knew I was forgiven. I think that’s extremely important.

It’s like this. You tell us it’s extremely important that we understand the physiology and biochemistry of digestion in order to feed our bodies. I say it’s just important that you eat.

Jesus said this, “this is eternal life, that they know (and understand) You, the One True God,” not that they understand exactly how the atonement works.

No one "knows the Father, except the son, and anyone to whom the son wills to reveal Him". (Mt 11:27). As for knowledge of the atonement, there are two sides of that coin. The message taught by the Gentile church, the "message" given by the "enemy" (Mt 13:24-25), the false gospel of grace, and the "message" given by the "son of man", which leads to life. The message of the "son of man" was the unveiling of the Law and the prophets, which would include understanding the concept of the Feast of Atonement, which is where the sins of Israel are transferred to the scape goat, who portrays the "devil". The feast of Atonement is with respect to repentance, and the forgiveness of sins, such as the washing of the high priest, and the transfer of Israel's sins to the scape goat, the devil, who was turned out into the wilderness, or in the case of Rev 20:3, threw into the abyss, and locked in for 1000 years. Later to be tossed into the lake of fire (Rev 20:10).
https://as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/05/57/94/9 ... 1fIAUY.jpg

Still no example of any NT author telling that understanding the theology of the atonement is extremely important.

[1213]

Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ?

It is possible Jesus died also because of sins people that are still unbelieving.

[Brightfame52]

Redeem us from unbelief/iniquity ! 3


Now what is one of the intended results of Christ's giving Himself for those He gave Himself for, the Church Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


BTW, thats the World Christ died for, the Whole World He is a Saviour unto, the Church ekklēsia or the called out ones, which is also His Body, which He is the Saviour of Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Savior of the body.

And it is the Purpose of God through His Death, to redeem them from all Iniquity, and the word redeem from Titus 2:14 is the greek word lytroō and means:

I release on receipt of ransom; mid: I redeem, release by paying ransom, liberate.

Now accompanying this liberation by redemption, its effects after paying the ransom, which is the blood of Christ 1 Pet 1:18-19,

It effects a restoration :

"a ransom-price") – properly, to release (set free) by paying the full ransom; "to release, on receipt of ransom" (Vine); (figuratively) to restore "something back, into the possession of its rightful owner – i.e. rescuing from the power and possession of an alien possessor"

It rescues them from the power and possession of the devil who holds them captive 2 Tim 2:26

To be captive means:

taken and held as or as if a prisoner of war ,kept within bounds ,held under control of another but having the appearance of independence; especially : owned or controlled by another

This would be all of us by nature, under the power and control of the devil or as Paul says it in Eph 2:2

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Its the Kingdom/power of darkness that they are delivered from as here Col 1:13

13 Who hath delivered or rescued us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Now Christ's redemptive blood, is suppose to deliver, rescue each one of the called out ones, those He died for, from the power of darkness, as well as translate them into the Kingdom of Christ, or else His Blood failed to redeem them !

All of you who are teaching and believing that one for Christ died can go to hell in unbelief and in their sins Jn 8:24, you are guilty of calling Christ's redemptive death a failure, it failed to redeem them and rescue them from the power of the devil, who holds mankind in unbelief ! 28

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 1213 in post #1074]
Huh ? You lost me. Do you understand my point ?

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #1061]

The Atonement is extremely important, and I have been showing why, what it accomplished and for whom. Any acceptable obedience and worship to God should be from right views of what He has accomplished through Jesus Christ.

I don’t see where you showed the point where any of the Bible writers say it’s extremely important to understand how and why. You explained the atonement but not where anyone but you says it’s extremely important.

Now if you cannot guess, I disagree. I, myself, experienced forgiveness and cleansing of sin as a child. I had no understanding whatsoever about the atonement theology but I knew I was forgiven. I think that’s extremely important.

It’s like this. You tell us it’s extremely important that we understand the physiology and biochemistry of digestion in order to feed our bodies. I say it’s just important that you eat.

Jesus said this, “this is eternal life, that they know (and understand) You, the One True God,” not that they understand exactly how the atonement works.

No one "knows the Father, except the son, and anyone to whom the son wills to reveal Him". (Mt 11:27). As for knowledge of the atonement, there are two sides of that coin. The message taught by the Gentile church, the "message" given by the "enemy" (Mt 13:24-25), the false gospel of grace, and the "message" given by the "son of man", which leads to life. The message of the "son of man" was the unveiling of the Law and the prophets, which would include understanding the concept of the Feast of Atonement, which is where the sins of Israel are transferred to the scape goat, who portrays the "devil". The feast of Atonement is with respect to repentance, and the forgiveness of sins, such as the washing of the high priest, and the transfer of Israel's sins to the scape goat, the devil, who was turned out into the wilderness, or in the case of Rev 20:3, threw into the abyss, and locked in for 1000 years. Later to be tossed into the lake of fire (Rev 20:10).
https://as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/05/57/94/9 ... 1fIAUY.jpg

Still no example of any NT author telling that understanding the theology of the atonement is extremely important.

The supposed "message" of the NT was to be the "message" of the "son of man", that being Yeshua. Yeshua's message was that the "kingdom of heaven" (Mt 13), with respect to the "end of the age", comes attached with the "great tribulation" (Mt 24) which comes attached with Revelation 16, whereas you have Har-Magedon, which aligns with the "day of the LORD" and the judgment of the nations/Gentiles (Joel 2:30-3:8). All this in fulfillment of the Law and the prophets, per Matthew 5:17. The "feast of atonement" comes before the feast of booths, which is the coming out of Israel from the nations/Egypt, which is with respect to the repentance of Israel (Hosea 5 & 6) and their healing (washed clean/atonement)(Ezekiel 36:25) before they are blessed. The atonement narrative of Paul's followers is simply a false narrative. The Gentiles remain in their sins, as the sons of Jacob remain in their sins, until Israel is washed clean per Ezekiel 36, after they are gathered out of the nations/Gentiles, which has not happened as of 6:30 P.M. of today.

[Mae von H]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #1061]

The Atonement is extremely important, and I have been showing why, what it accomplished and for whom. Any acceptable obedience and worship to God should be from right views of what He has accomplished through Jesus Christ.

I don’t see where you showed the point where any of the Bible writers say it’s extremely important to understand how and why. You explained the atonement but not where anyone but you says it’s extremely important.

Now if you cannot guess, I disagree. I, myself, experienced forgiveness and cleansing of sin as a child. I had no understanding whatsoever about the atonement theology but I knew I was forgiven. I think that’s extremely important.

It’s like this. You tell us it’s extremely important that we understand the physiology and biochemistry of digestion in order to feed our bodies. I say it’s just important that you eat.

Jesus said this, “this is eternal life, that they know (and understand) You, the One True God,” not that they understand exactly how the atonement works.

No one "knows the Father, except the son, and anyone to whom the son wills to reveal Him". (Mt 11:27). As for knowledge of the atonement, there are two sides of that coin. The message taught by the Gentile church, the "message" given by the "enemy" (Mt 13:24-25), the false gospel of grace, and the "message" given by the "son of man", which leads to life. The message of the "son of man" was the unveiling of the Law and the prophets, which would include understanding the concept of the Feast of Atonement, which is where the sins of Israel are transferred to the scape goat, who portrays the "devil". The feast of Atonement is with respect to repentance, and the forgiveness of sins, such as the washing of the high priest, and the transfer of Israel's sins to the scape goat, the devil, who was turned out into the wilderness, or in the case of Rev 20:3, threw into the abyss, and locked in for 1000 years. Later to be tossed into the lake of fire (Rev 20:10).
https://as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/05/57/94/9 ... 1fIAUY.jpg

Still no example of any NT author telling that understanding the theology of the atonement is extremely important.

The supposed "message" of the NT was to be the "message" of the "son of man", that being Yeshua. Yeshua's message was that the "kingdom of heaven" (Mt 13), with respect to the "end of the age", comes attached with the "great tribulation" (Mt 24) which comes attached with Revelation 16, whereas you have Har-Magedon, which aligns with the "day of the LORD" and the judgment of the nations/Gentiles (Joel 2:30-3:8). All this in fulfillment of the Law and the prophets, per Matthew 5:17. The "feast of atonement" comes before the feast of booths, which is the coming out of Israel from the nations/Egypt, which is with respect to the repentance of Israel (Hosea 5 & 6) and their healing (washed clean/atonement)(Ezekiel 36:25) before they are blessed. The atonement narrative of Paul's followers is simply a false narrative. The Gentiles remain in their sins, as the sons of Jacob remain in their sins, until Israel is washed clean per Ezekiel 36, after they are gathered out of the nations/Gentiles, which has not happened as of 6:30 P.M. of today.

Lots of eschatology there, no scripture that anyone writing the Bible thought understanding the atonement was extremely important.

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #1074]
Huh ? You lost me. Do you understand my point ?

Previously you said:

Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ?

Maybe I don't understand correctly what you say. But, I think it would be better to say, Jesus died because of everyone's sins. He came on earth to declare forgiveness of sins for everyone, and was killed because of that.

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #1061]

The Atonement is extremely important, and I have been showing why, what it accomplished and for whom. Any acceptable obedience and worship to God should be from right views of what He has accomplished through Jesus Christ.

I don’t see where you showed the point where any of the Bible writers say it’s extremely important to understand how and why. You explained the atonement but not where anyone but you says it’s extremely important.

Now if you cannot guess, I disagree. I, myself, experienced forgiveness and cleansing of sin as a child. I had no understanding whatsoever about the atonement theology but I knew I was forgiven. I think that’s extremely important.

It’s like this. You tell us it’s extremely important that we understand the physiology and biochemistry of digestion in order to feed our bodies. I say it’s just important that you eat.

Jesus said this, “this is eternal life, that they know (and understand) You, the One True God,” not that they understand exactly how the atonement works.

No one "knows the Father, except the son, and anyone to whom the son wills to reveal Him". (Mt 11:27). As for knowledge of the atonement, there are two sides of that coin. The message taught by the Gentile church, the "message" given by the "enemy" (Mt 13:24-25), the false gospel of grace, and the "message" given by the "son of man", which leads to life. The message of the "son of man" was the unveiling of the Law and the prophets, which would include understanding the concept of the Feast of Atonement, which is where the sins of Israel are transferred to the scape goat, who portrays the "devil". The feast of Atonement is with respect to repentance, and the forgiveness of sins, such as the washing of the high priest, and the transfer of Israel's sins to the scape goat, the devil, who was turned out into the wilderness, or in the case of Rev 20:3, threw into the abyss, and locked in for 1000 years. Later to be tossed into the lake of fire (Rev 20:10).
https://as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/05/57/94/9 ... 1fIAUY.jpg

Still no example of any NT author telling that understanding the theology of the atonement is extremely important.

The supposed "message" of the NT was to be the "message" of the "son of man", that being Yeshua. Yeshua's message was that the "kingdom of heaven" (Mt 13), with respect to the "end of the age", comes attached with the "great tribulation" (Mt 24) which comes attached with Revelation 16, whereas you have Har-Magedon, which aligns with the "day of the LORD" and the judgment of the nations/Gentiles (Joel 2:30-3:8). All this in fulfillment of the Law and the prophets, per Matthew 5:17. The "feast of atonement" comes before the feast of booths, which is the coming out of Israel from the nations/Egypt, which is with respect to the repentance of Israel (Hosea 5 & 6) and their healing (washed clean/atonement)(Ezekiel 36:25) before they are blessed. The atonement narrative of Paul's followers is simply a false narrative. The Gentiles remain in their sins, as the sons of Jacob remain in their sins, until Israel is washed clean per Ezekiel 36, after they are gathered out of the nations/Gentiles, which has not happened as of 6:30 P.M. of today.

Lots of eschatology there, no scripture that anyone writing the Bible thought understanding the atonement was extremely important.

The "atonement" starts with confession and repentance (Yom Kippur)/feast of atonement. Confession and repentance were the base point of Yeshua's ministry as stated in Matthew 3. In general, the Gentiles and Israel are under the curse of God until they confess and repent, at which time they can be blessed and healed. The feast of atonement is the imagery as to how that happens. If you want to remain cursed, and sickly, well remain on the path you are on. If you are healthy and blessed, well, you apparently need no advice from the Word of God, until the point where you do need it.