The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #1047]

You lost me, I dont know what you talking about

I suggest that you actually read Matthew 13, and Daniel 12:10. The "Feast of Atonement", is one of the high holy days of the law given by God. It is about laying the sins of Israel on the goat who was sent into the wilderness, much like Ishmael was sent into the wilderness with his mother, but the goat image is kept in the image of Satan/devil, who has hooves and goat horns, and locked in the abyss during the millennium (Rev 20:1-3). No one died to save you from death, for "everybody will die for their own iniquities (sins)" (Jeremiah 31:30). It is actually Esau/Edom who takes on the brunt of God's wrath, the tribe who was given the land of Edom, such as the land surrounding Petra, the original home of the traditions adopted by the Muslims (Obadiah 1).

So you want me to abandon my studies and follow yours ?

[Brightfame52]

He finished the Work God gave Him to do ! 3


Now it cannot be said enough, unless 1 Tim 2:4 ; Lk 19:10 are performed successfully for all whom God desires it for, then again Christ did not finish the Work the Father gave Him to do as Per He said He did here Jn 17:4

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Now myself and every True Believer does believe Christ accomplished God's Will and desire, and that everyone God desired to be saved experimentally Lk 19:10; 1 Tim 2:4 is saved and shall be saved, and consequently any that are not saved and do remained in a lost state, then obviously they were not of the all of them that God desired to be saved , lest again we charge Christ with failure to Finish His Fathers Work given Him to do !28

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #1047]

You lost me, I dont know what you talking about

I suggest that you actually read Matthew 13, and Daniel 12:10. The "Feast of Atonement", is one of the high holy days of the law given by God. It is about laying the sins of Israel on the goat who was sent into the wilderness, much like Ishmael was sent into the wilderness with his mother, but the goat image is kept in the image of Satan/devil, who has hooves and goat horns, and locked in the abyss during the millennium (Rev 20:1-3). No one died to save you from death, for "everybody will die for their own iniquities (sins)" (Jeremiah 31:30). It is actually Esau/Edom who takes on the brunt of God's wrath, the tribe who was given the land of Edom, such as the land surrounding Petra, the original home of the traditions adopted by the Muslims (Obadiah 1).

So you want me to abandon my studies and follow yours ?

Studying the traditions of men and false prophets, seems to come short at looking at the message of the "son of man"/Yeshua, and what Yeshua defined as "scripture". But, to each his own. (Jeremiah 31:29-30)

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #1053]
Thats your opinion, you entitled to it, but dont expect me to abandon what I see in scripture.

[Brightfame52]

He finished the Work God gave Him to do ! 4


Again, this cannot be overemphasized, If Christ's Death and Obedience did not ensure the Eternal Salvation of all whom His Father and God desired it for 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Then scripture is also misleading when it reads thusly Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

" the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand."

It could read as well " the will or desire of the Lord shall prosper in his hand."

Now what is God's Desire in 1 Tim 2:4 ?

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #1053]
Thats your opinion, you entitled to it, but dont expect me to abandon what I see in scripture.

That is your apparent problem. Building on the sandy foundation of Peter (the worthless shepherd of Zech 11:17, and Paul, the 2nd staff/shepherd taken to "pasture the flock (Gentile church) to slaughter", seems a shaky thing to do (Zech 11:7). You should note that Yeshua called Peter, Satan, and a "stumbling block to me" (Mt 16:23). You probably should have taken Yeshua seriously.

[Brightfame52]

He finished the Work God gave Him to do ! 5


We looked at the scripture Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

That word pleasure chephets which means:

desire, longing

And so could very well read Isa 53:10 thusly :

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the desire of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

And the word prosper does mean to succeed !

The Desire or the Will of the Lord shall succeed in the Hand of Christ. We looked at that its God's desire that this happens 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

That word will thelō means:

to desire, to wish

So it could read :

4 who desires that all men should be saved and come to [the] knowledge of [the] truth.

Now this desire in the Hand of Christ is suppose to succeed ! He is responsible for its accomplishment ! Look whats said here as to what He is suppose to accomplish for the Father Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

10 The Son of Man came to find lost people and save them.”

But now, If just one whom the Father God desired to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth, and it was certainly Christ's mission to loose nothing as depicted from His own Words here Jn 6:39

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Then how did the Pleasure, the Desire of the Lord prosper in His Hand ? Simply speaking, it did not ! If God desired all to be saved and yet one was not saved, Christ Lied when He said He finished the Work the Father gave Him to do Jn 17:4 there is no way to escape this crucial conclusion ! 28

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #1056]

Thanks for your opinion again

[Brightfame52]

Question here :

Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ? 28

[1213]

Question here :

Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ? 28

Jesus was sent on earth to proclaim the good news about forgiveness. And he was murdered because of that. If people would be without sin, that would not have happened. That is why I think it can be said he died for sins of all people.