The Atonement

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Revelations won
Sage
Posts: 830
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:13 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 27 times

The Atonement

Post #1

Post by Revelations won »

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

User avatar
otseng
Savant
Posts: 20501
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Has thanked: 197 times
Been thanked: 336 times
Contact:

Re: The Atonement

Post #681

Post by otseng »

Brightfame52 wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:00 am You in your own little world.
Moderator Comment

Please debate without making personal comments about others.

Please review the Rules.





______________



Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

User avatar
Eddie Ramos
Scholar
Posts: 410
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:30 pm
Location: USA
Been thanked: 34 times
Contact:

Re: The Atonement

Post #682

Post by Eddie Ramos »

Revelations won wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:21 am To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?
Insofar as our salvation is concerned, no. There is no need to understand any part of God's atoning work in order to have received salvation. God could have saved a theological scholar who had incredible understanding of the scriptures, as well as a baby in the womb who had no knowledge of anything (like John the Baptist and Jeremiah). The only requirement for salvation was to be under the hearing of the Word of God, that's it.

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


The actual work of salvation, from start to finish, is performed by Christ.

Philippians 1:6 (KJV 1900)
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Revelations won wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:21 am What does the atonement do or does not do?
The atonement was God's way of satisfying the requirement of his own law for the payment he required for sin. That payment was death (Rom 6:23). So God accomplished this himself in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ on behalf of certain chosen (elect) people.

Ephesians 1:4–5 (KJV 1900)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


This means that the wrath of God upon these chosen people had been fully satisfied and these chosen people were no longer under his wrath. The only thing that remained was for God to apply his atoning work upon each individual he had redeemed. And this was accomplished as the gospel was preached throughout the course of history. And upon the hearing of the gospel, God would apply his atoning work to each elect in the time of God's own choosing. Whether at conception (like Jeremiah) or the final hour of one's life (like the thief on the cross), or anytime in between.
Revelations won wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:21 am What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?
Nothing whatsoever, as anything we tried to contribute towards our salvation was a "work of righteousness" which could never save anyone.

Titus 3:5 (KJV 1900)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


A work of righteousness is any type of obedience to any commandment of God. Commandments like "believe", "confess", "repent", "be baptized", etc. These are all commands that God has given in his Word and anytime we obey any of God's commandments, it's considered a work of righteousness. The only time these works bring glory to God is after we've become saved and not to become saved.
Revelations won wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:21 am What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?
The atonement by God, in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, took place before the world began, but was manifested for us to see in 33 AD when Christ physically died on the cross. But this manifestation was not when he was bearing sin. That work was already finished from the foundation of the world.
Revelations won wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:21 am Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?


I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW
There's quite a few, but here are some:
Chosen and predestined before the world began:
Ephesians 1:4 (KJV 1900)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Atonement made at the same "time":
1 Peter 1:20 (KJV 1900)
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Revelation 13:8 (KJV 1900)
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 4:3 (KJV 1900)
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 9:26 (KJV 1900)
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.


2 Timothy 1:9 (KJV 1900)
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in (Through) Christ Jesus before the world began,

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The Atonement

Post #683

Post by Brightfame52 »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:18 pm
Brightfame52 wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:13 am More on Rom 4:25

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

When the Lord Jesus Christ was delivered up for the offences of all those given to Him in Election, and bore their sins in His Body on the Tree, He did meet all the Judicial demands of the law [ on their behalf ] and having satisfied, made propitiation to the Righteous Wrath of God, He was Raised from the Dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

They, the Sheep were raised up together with Him to Justification of Life Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

And so He was raised again because of their Justification, and to deny this is to deny the Gospel !
The "gospel" of Yeshua was the "kingdom of heaven", and the "rock" it is based on is "justice" and "righteousness" (Isaiah 28:16-18) in comparison of "your pact with sheol/death", based on "falsehood" and "deception", proclaimed by the false prophet Paul and his associates. Paul is the "staff"/"shepherd" the "LORD" named "Favor" (Zechariah 11:10), and his bedfellow, the 2nd "staff"/"shepherd", would be the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, who Yeshua named Petros/Peter, because he actually wasn't the petras, the foundational stone. Both were to be taken by the LORD, by way of his right arm, Yeshua, to "pasture" the "flock (Gentile church) doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7). The "slaughter" will be way of the "angels" "gathering" those "who commit lawlessness", following the gospel of grace, and throwing them into the "furnace of fire", that comes at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:30 & 40-42). And by the way, "everyone shall die for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30).
So you disagree with my testimony correct ?

2ndpillar2
Sage
Posts: 842
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:47 am
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: The Atonement

Post #684

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

Brightfame52 wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:16 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:18 pm
Brightfame52 wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:13 am More on Rom 4:25

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

When the Lord Jesus Christ was delivered up for the offences of all those given to Him in Election, and bore their sins in His Body on the Tree, He did meet all the Judicial demands of the law [ on their behalf ] and having satisfied, made propitiation to the Righteous Wrath of God, He was Raised from the Dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

They, the Sheep were raised up together with Him to Justification of Life Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

And so He was raised again because of their Justification, and to deny this is to deny the Gospel !
The "gospel" of Yeshua was the "kingdom of heaven", and the "rock" it is based on is "justice" and "righteousness" (Isaiah 28:16-18) in comparison of "your pact with sheol/death", based on "falsehood" and "deception", proclaimed by the false prophet Paul and his associates. Paul is the "staff"/"shepherd" the "LORD" named "Favor" (Zechariah 11:10), and his bedfellow, the 2nd "staff"/"shepherd", would be the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, who Yeshua named Petros/Peter, because he actually wasn't the petras, the foundational stone. Both were to be taken by the LORD, by way of his right arm, Yeshua, to "pasture" the "flock (Gentile church) doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7). The "slaughter" will be way of the "angels" "gathering" those "who commit lawlessness", following the gospel of grace, and throwing them into the "furnace of fire", that comes at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:30 & 40-42). And by the way, "everyone shall die for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30).
So you disagree with my testimony correct ?
What "testimony"? I thought you were simply quoting from the false prophet Paul and his associates.

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The Atonement

Post #685

Post by Brightfame52 »

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #684]

You have a right to have thoughts.

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The Atonement

Post #686

Post by Brightfame52 »

More on Rom 4:25 Justification of Life !

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life

The Justification that the Resurrection of Jesus Christ gave witness to and evidence of in Rom 4:25

25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

And that is Justification of Life ! That is the effect that Christ's Death alone produces. It comes through one man's righteous act, Now to deny this is to deny the Gospel of free grace salvation.

And no, ,the all men here does not mean all men without exception, but the all men whom Christ had given to Him by the Father, or the Church of which He was the Head of !
10

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The Atonement

Post #687

Post by Brightfame52 »

Jesus gives Life to the World !

Jn 6:33

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

The Lord Jesus Christ's coming into the World was by Covenant engagement the Everlasting Covenant, the results of which would be to give life unto the World, this is not a offer of life, nor is it merely making life available if only we would accept it or no, but it is a communication of Life, and that a Spiritual Life, a Covenant Life as Per Mal 2:5

My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

John Gill says of this verse:

My covenant was with him of life and peace…

Not with Aaron, nor with Phinehas; nor is it to be understood of a covenant, promising temporal life and outward prosperity to either of them; Aaron living a hundred and twenty three years, (Numbers 33:39) and Phinehas, according to some Jewish writers, above three hundred years, which they gather from (Judges 20:28) but of the covenant made with Christ from everlasting, called "a covenant of life", because it was made with Christ the Word of life, who was with the Father from all eternity, and in time was made manifest in the flesh; and was made in behalf of persons ordained to eternal life, and in which that was promised and given to them in him; and in which it was agreed that he should become man, and lay down his life as such, that they might enjoy it: and it is called a "covenant of peace", because the scheme of peace and reconciliation was drawn in it, and agreed unto; Christ was appointed in it to be the Peacemaker; and in consequence of which he was sent to procure peace, and he has made it by the blood of his cross: and this covenant may be said to have been and to be "with him"; because it was made with him from all eternity, as the head and representative of his people, and he had all the blessings and promises of it put into his hands; and it stands fast with him, and will do so for evermore. And I gave them to him;
namely, the blessings of life and peace; eternal life is the gift of God; and not only the promise of it, but that itself, was given to Christ in covenant for his people, and a power to give it to as many as the Father gave to him, (Psalms 21:4) (2 Timothy 1:1) (1 John 5:12) (John 17:2) he gave him also peace to make, put this work of peacemaking into his hand; and he allows it to be made by him, and that it is rightly effected; and from his blood and righteousness peace springs to his people; and they enjoy peace in him and through him, yea, all prosperity and happiness:

This Covenant Life of ours was with and in Christ from the beginning Jn 1:4

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

1 Jn 1:1-2

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us )

Now the basis for all whom this Life belonged to, and of them receiving of it, was His giving His Life in the stead of theirs Jn 6:51

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Christ giving His Life by Covenant arrangement, entails that those He died in behalf of, that they receive Life, [a communication or quickening] Life from Him !

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The Atonement

Post #688

Post by Brightfame52 »

A Accomplishment Solely of Christ's Death !

2 Tim 1:10

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

The Death of Christ solely abolished death apart from any subsequent work of the Spirit. He has abolished death for each person He died for. And for this meritorious cause, each person He died for receives Life as a Free Gift from New Birth or Quickening which is a subsequent work of the Spirit because of His meritorious death !

Each Person that Christ died for has been delivered by His Death from Death Spiritual, Death Physical in that if they die it ushers them into the prescience of Him that died for them 2 Cor 5:8 and Phil 1:23

And the Second Death or Eternal Death ! Its impossible for anyone Christ died for to remain dead in trespasses and sins, so we read Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

That saved Grace by which He tasted Death fir every man or son Heb 2:9-10 10

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The Atonement

Post #689

Post by Brightfame52 »

It makes us the Righteousness of God in Him !

2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Whenever we see the word that, hina, it is stating the Divine Purpose, and here it is stating that purpose for which Christ was made sin[By Imputation] for those He died for, it was so they could be made Righteous !

The word made is the greek word ginomai which means:

to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen

a) of events

3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage

a) of men appearing in public

4) to be made, finished

a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought

5) to become, be made


The Idea here is that of being made a New Creation, A New Man as this Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Yes, this is result of Christ being made sin for those He died, that they would be made a New Creation, to receive a New Being to the Glory of God through Jesus Christ, and so it is written of these Isa 43:7

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

This statement is based upon Christ's Work here 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 10

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The Atonement

Post #690

Post by Brightfame52 »

It makes us the Righteousness of God in Him ! cont

The Reason why those Christ died for must be made a New Creation, is because His Death for them satisfied the Law and Justice of God on behalf of them, which declares them Justified and Righteous before Him, and His Righteousness laid to their Charge demands Life ! As the old proverb states Prov 12:28

In the way of righteousness [Christ's Imputed] is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

Thats also why Paul writes Rom 5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The word life here is in the genitive case describing what kind of Justification it is, It possesses Life or it brings Life or effects Life, Spiritual Life, Quickening Life !

So the effects of Christ's Death goes beyond declaring us Righteous before God, but it also provides by Quickening, making us experientially Righteous, John Rights 1 Jn 3:7

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Doing Righteousness here is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. In fact, everyone doing Righteousness had been made Righteous 2 Cor 5:21.

Jesus Christ was made sin for us [ The Church ], so that [stating purpose] we may become experientially Righteous. Paul teaches that also here Rom 5:19b

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made[experientially] righteous.

Just like all who were in Adam in his disobedience were made [experientially] sinners !!

This Truth is what all the antichrist followers deny and do not understand, but this is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. Christ's death or being made sin was not to make salvation and conversion merely possible, but that it would effect conversion, experiential salvation and to begin a Life that is dedicated for the Honor of God, to Worship Him in Spirit and Truth, that kind of worshiper did the Father desire Jn 4:23

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

And this end is accomplished by 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Post Reply