The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[Brightfame52]

Salvation comes from His Death !


Its simply amazing how many so called Believers in Christ, they dont even believe that His Death ALONE saved those He died for, which such a belief is essential to Faith in Christ, believing on Him for all of Salvation; in other words, if we dont believe Christ's Death ALONE is what saves a Soul for whom He dies from Death, the Penalty of Sin, that is Death in all of its phases, Spiritual, Eternal, and out of Physical Death if we must die Physically, for all shall not sleep, then quite frankly we dont believe in Christ, thats all to it , we are yet in unbelief, no matter how religious and sincere we may be !

Now there are numerous scriptures that teach God's True People that Christ's death alone saved those He died for, yet at this Time I will Highlight one in particular that is so neglected, which is this One Jn 12:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

The Corn of wheat here that falls into the Ground and DIES, signifys Christ's Death Vs 32-33

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

This is all in the same context of Jn 12 ! And if He as that Corn of wheat dies, the result is, " it bringeth forth MUCH Fruit" which is meant by that Salvation, The Salvation of Souls, The Fruit of Life Eternal !

The bringing forth much fruit is the producing of a numerous Offspring or descendents , for the word fruit karpos does mean:

B.the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity

Its related to the Great Prophecy Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin[Fall into the Ground and die], he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

That word seed zera` means:

D.offspring, descendants, posterity, children

Yes, Jn 12:24 is the same as Isa 53:10, and this offspring receives its Life from Christ 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

And there is no other way to understand Jn 12:24, the verse simply teaches the Eternal Salvation of each and everyone Christ as the Corn of wheat fell into the Ground and died for, Seeing His Seed is the Fruit of His Death, or bringing forth much fruit ! 28

[2ndpillar2]

Salvation comes from His Death !


Its simply amazing how many so called Believers in Christ, they dont even believe that His Death ALONE saved those He died for, which such a belief is essential to Faith in Christ, believing on Him for all of Salvation; in other words, if we dont believe Christ's Death ALONE is what saves a Soul for whom He dies from Death, the Penalty of Sin, that is Death in all of its phases, Spiritual, Eternal, and out of Physical Death if we must die Physically, for all shall not sleep, then quite frankly we dont believe in Christ, thats all to it , we are yet in unbelief, no matter how religious and sincere we may be !

Now there are numerous scriptures that teach God's True People that Christ's death alone saved those He died for, yet at this Time I will Highlight one in particular that is so neglected, which is this One Jn 12:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

The Corn of wheat here that falls into the Ground and DIES, signifys Christ's Death Vs 32-33

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

This is all in the same context of Jn 12 ! And if He as that Corn of wheat dies, the result is, " it bringeth forth MUCH Fruit" which is meant by that Salvation, The Salvation of Souls, The Fruit of Life Eternal !

The bringing forth much fruit is the producing of a numerous Offspring or descendents , for the word fruit karpos does mean:

B.the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity

Its related to the Great Prophecy Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin[Fall into the Ground and die], he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

That word seed zera` means:

D.offspring, descendants, posterity, children

Yes, Jn 12:24 is the same as Isa 53:10, and this offspring receives its Life from Christ 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

And there is no other way to understand Jn 12:24, the verse simply teaches the Eternal Salvation of each and everyone Christ as the Corn of wheat fell into the Ground and died for, Seeing His Seed is the Fruit of His Death, or bringing forth much fruit ! 28

Paul and everyone he spoke to has "slept" and have "died" for their own iniquities (Jeremiah 31:30). No one came and saved them. The "good seed", that was planted next to the "seed" of the "enemy"/"devil", was the "message of the son of man" (Mt 13). The "seed" of the "devil"/"enemy" (false prophet Paul) will have protection until the "end of the age", where upon its fruits, the lawless, will be "gathered" "first" and thrown into the fire (Mt 13:30). The product of the "good seed", the wheat seed, is the "righteous", the sons of God (1 John 3:8-9), whereas the results of the "tare seed", the "message" of the "devil", those who "commit lawlessness"/wickedness (Mt 13:13-49), are sons of the devil. (1 John 3:8).

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #1042]

You took this to another direction

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #1042]

You took this to another direction

Let me restate my position. No one "atoned" for anyone's sin, for "every person will die for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30). Following the "wide" "path" of the "false prophets", including the false prophet Paul, leads to "destruction" (Mt 7:12-15). The "feast of Atonement" is about Israel placing their sins on the Judas Goat and sending him into the desert. The Judas Goat is represented by the "dragon"/"devil", who firsts is bound up in the abyss (wilderness) (Rev 20:2), and who winds up in the "lake of fire" with the "false prophet", and the "beast" at the end of the Millennium, which is at least around 1000 years in the future.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsp ... -promo.jpg

[Brightfame52]

He finished the Work God gave Him to do !


John 17:4

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.


Now what exactly was the Work that He finished ? Was it to make Salvation possible ? What about available ? No never, but it was everything needed to be done for the complete Salvation, the Saving of Gods Covenant People Israel, Remember the Promise Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Thats His Work God gave Him to do, to ensure that that Promise comes into frution.

For this cause He was given a Covenant unto the People Isa 42:6-7

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

These things constitute their Salvation from sin ! Now Christ the Lord did accomplish this Work, He executes everything needful for everyone of Israel [God's Elect from all Nations] to come into a Saving Knowledge of their Salvation by experience, He finished all things needed to accomplish that Jn 19:30

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Not one of them shall be Lost. They needed the Spirit to work effectually in their Lives in order for this to be done and accomplished, so thats why after complteing the Work of the Cross,God gave Him the Holy Spirit to pour upon all He had been given as a Covenant Head to Acts 2:32-33

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

This act ensures that everyone for whom He died comes into the Saving Knowledge of the Truth 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And the And the Holy Ghost that Christ sheds upon them effects this outcome 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The Work of the Spirit through Christ fufills the Will of God the Father expressed in 1 Tim 2:4 ! 28

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #1044]

I see your position, do you see mine ? Did you understand it ?

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #1044]

I see your position, do you see mine ? Did you understand it ?

I understand that you consumed the "tare seed" and have grown up to be a "tare", which is a weed, that looks like wheat, but has no fruit. If you will check with Mt 13, the "tare seed", the "message of the devil" is planted right next to the "good" wheat seed, the "message of the son of man, and that now that we are at the "end of the age" (Mt 13:30), the tares will soon be gathered first, and thrown into the fire, which is the "great tribulation", whereas you will see much "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Mt 13:37-42). Try reading the "message", the good seed, from the "son of man" which gives light to the Law and the prophets. Otherwise, the parables of Yeshua are not understood (Daniel 12:10) (Isaiah 6:8-9), if one follows wickedness/lawlessness, which is the gospel of grace by the false prophet Paul.

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #1047]

You lost me, I dont know what you talking about

[Brightfame52]

He finished the Work God gave Him to do ! 2


Now if this doesn't happen unto all for whom God desires to be saved and come into a Knowledge of the Truth as expressed in 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Then Christ Lied here Jn 17:4

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And He was delusional and lied here Jn 19:30

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

That word finished there means:

II.to perform, execute, complete, fulfil, (so that the thing done corresponds to what has been said, the order, command etc.)

God's Commandment from the Work of Christ is Everlasting Life Accomplished Jn 12:50

And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

God is NOT GLORIFIED if Christ did not finish all that needed to be finished that ensured the Execution of the Divine Purpose and Will which to seek and TO SAVE ALL that which was Lost Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Christ has miserably failed if What He finished upon the completion of His Work does not effect that All whom God willed to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth as Per 1 Tim 2:4, which is to experience Salvation in the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13 !

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #1047]

You lost me, I dont know what you talking about

I suggest that you actually read Matthew 13, and Daniel 12:10. The "Feast of Atonement", is one of the high holy days of the law given by God. It is about laying the sins of Israel on the goat who was sent into the wilderness, much like Ishmael was sent into the wilderness with his mother, but the goat image is kept in the image of Satan/devil, who has hooves and goat horns, and locked in the abyss during the millennium (Rev 20:1-3). No one died to save you from death, for "everybody will die for their own iniquities (sins)" (Jeremiah 31:30). It is actually Esau/Edom who takes on the brunt of God's wrath, the tribe who was given the land of Edom, such as the land surrounding Petra, the original home of the traditions adopted by the Muslims (Obadiah 1).