The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[Brightfame52]

More on Rom 4:25

Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Jesus Christ's Death on the Cross has completely satisfied all of God's Righteous requirements on behalf of those He died for, in that they are Justified, made right with God through Jesus Christ, His Death Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Now His Resurrection proves that God's Law and Justice has been satisfied by Christ's Death and that All concerned are hereby Justified or absolved [remission of sins]because of what Christ has done for them Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Everyone that Christ has died for, no matter what, no matter that they are born by nature children of wrath as others Eph 2:3, their Justification and remission of sin before God through Jesus Christ Death is a completed fact forever Heb 9:12. The word redemption in this verse means deliverance from the penalty of sin, which equals Justification ! This fact just is not known to the redeemed, until it is revealed by the Spirit through the Gospel, for the Just shall live by Faith. In other words this Free Gift of Justification that they have through the Merits of Christ Alone, shall be made known to them by the Spirit in due time 1 Tim 2:6, for since they are made Just or righteous by Christ's obedience alone [Rom 5:19] they shall and must live by Faith, So in God's Time they are given a new Birth by the Spirit, and given as a Fruit of the Spirit, Faith to receive the Gospel Revelation of their Justification, and Praise God for His Grace ! The Justification they have that was evidenced by Christ's Resurrection shall be made known to them ! 7

[myth-one.com]

Jesus Christ's Death on the Cross has completely satisfied all of God's Righteous requirements on behalf of those He died for, in that they are Justified, made right with God through Jesus Christ, His Death.

No, Jesus died His first death which is appointed to every human:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

If our first "death" is the wages for our sins, and Jesus has paid that debt for believers by dying His first death, then why are Christians still dying worldwide?

Since it is obvious that Christians die, then Jesus' death obviously did not save them from their appointed first death.

Our first death is not the wages for mankind's sins.

The wages for our sins is the "second death" not our appointed first death.

<================== HERE IS WHAT ACTUALLY SAVES BELIEVERS =======================>

Jesus' death activated the New Testament Covenant:

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth

When Jesus died as a sinless Jewish man under the Old Testament, His inheritance was to be everlasting life because He never sinned. The wages of sin is death, but He never sinned, so He will inherit everlasting life under the first covenant.

But it was preplanned that Jesus would never accept His inheritance, but offer it to other humans who believe in Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This allowed the fault in the original covenant to be fixed as it provided a path to salvation for every other human.

Under the New Testament Covenant, our salvation is not controlled by our sins.

<=======================================>

In the beginning, the Word created everything ever created. This included the earth and a host of angels to maintain the earth. But a third of these angels rebelled against God, and the earth had became empty, void, and dark as a result.

The Word returned and re-created the decimated earth. As opposed to creating new angels and possibly being stuck with more rebellious angels forever, God created mortal mankind.

Mankind must honor and obey their creator as a prerequisite to gaining everlasting life. This was all codified in an everlasting covenant between man and God. Ah, the perfect plan!

<=========================================>

But there was a fault in that first plan, as all mankind ever created disobeyed God! Thus zero replacement angels had ever been created! What to do?

<========================================>

The Word created the system with the fault, so God the Father apparently assigned the Word to fix the fault.

<=======================================>

What if one man could live a sinless life under the original covenant. By doing so, that man would be an heir to everlasting life under that covenant. That person who became the only heir unto salvation could then write His testament offering His estate (his pending inheritance of everlasting life) to those who believe and try their best to honor God as evidenced by their belief in the testator of the covenant (Jesus Christ).

That's a plan, but is it just and true as God has to be? Turns out that a precedence had already occurred on the earth between God and one man. So here is the "legalize" justifying the Word's solution:

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Seemingly, there are three Spirits involved with the creation, maintenance, and future of the earth -- God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost.

And all three were OK with this plan:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

So somehow, the Word was made flesh as a Jewish man, lived a sinless human life, died and inherited an inheritance of everlasting life.

A New Covenant was then created and became effective upon the death of Jesus:

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So eternal life can now be gained by any human through believing in Jesus as one's Savior from the wages of their sins.

Problem solved!!

[Brightfame52]

mythone

No, Jesus died His first death which is appointed to every human:

I dont know what you talking about, But the Jesus I witness of, His death satisfied the Law and Justice of all for whom He died, not every human, but only for His Church, the Elect of God. The rest of humanity has a Judgment to face and give an account for their sins.

[myth-one.com]

No, Jesus died His first death which is appointed to every human:

I dont know what you talking about, But the Jesus I witness of, His death satisfied the Law and Justice of all for whom He died, not every human, but only for His Church, the Elect of God. The rest of humanity has a Judgment to face and give an account for their sins.

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

The Bible describes physical and spiritual forms of life. Spiritual beings consist of the Trinity of God and the angels. The physical life forms consist of every life form which is not spiritual. This includes plants, insects, germs, viruses, fish, birds, animals, and others. Man is an animal. All physical life forms share one very important characteristic. All die! Spiritual life forms live for eternity. This is the characteristic which distinguishes man from spiritual beings.

According to the Bible, two separate and distinct deaths can befall mankind. The first and most obvious death ends our short one hundred and twenty year maximum life which we are presently living on the earth.

Our second possible physical death is described in the book of Revelation:

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Individuals whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire and suffer their "second death." They die because they are physical bodies which can die. They are physical bodies because they have never believed in Jesus and been born again as a spirit which cannot die. It is very important to notice that this death is actually labeled as a death! That is, it is final and eternal. There is no recovery or return from the second death! This truly fits our definition of the word death. It is the permanent cessation of all vital life functions.

When the first death of any man is discussed in the Bible, the words used to describe that event are sleep or rest. Only man, among all the animals is said to sleep, slumber, or rest when he dies. In fact, when Jesus raised people from the dead, He often stated they were not dead, but simply asleep.

From God's perspective there is one true death, the second death.

If believing in Jesus kept Christians from perishing in the first death, then certainly people like Peter and Paul and millions of other dead Christians would still be alive today! This would invalidate the one hundred and twenty-year limit placed on the human body. So the first death is not the wages for our sins. There is no avoiding the first death. It is appointed for all physical beings:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Everyone who dies the first death will be resurrected, whether Christian or not. Therefore, when we die the first death, we do not perish.

Since God gave His only Son so that those who believe in Him should not perish, this promise protects us from the second death. From God's prospective, we do not perish due to our first death, we simply rest.

[myth-one.com]

Jesus died His first death which is appointed to every human:

I dont know what you talking about, But the Jesus I witness of, His death satisfied the Law and Justice of all for whom He died, not every human, but only for His Church, the Elect of God. The rest of humanity has a Judgment to face and give an account for their sins.

Jesus' sinless life satisfied the law and justice under the Old Testament Covenant -- not His death. He had no choice other than dying after being born as a man. It is appointed to all men once to die.

If Jesus only died to satisfy the Law & Justice for the Elect of God as you claim -- then why bother resurrecting the rest of humanity to embarrass and humiliate them with judgment prior to casting them into the lake of fire?

Why not simply let them remain dead?

Can God be Love while also being sadistic?

Does the Jesus you witness of have multiple personalities?

The system you describe is one that would be designed by man -- as it focuses on punishment. I'll bet you heard it from a preacher man.

It is not close to God's plan as described in the scriptures.

[Brightfame52]

mythone

Jesus' sinless life satisfied the law

See My Jesus did both for Gods Elect, He satisfied the Moral Law and Kept Gods Holy Law without sin for Gods elect, and He satisfied Gods Holy Justice because the sinned against His Law. Rom 8:3-4

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[myth-one.com]

mythone

Jesus' sinless life satisfied the law

See My Jesus did both for Gods Elect, He satisfied the Moral Law and Kept Gods Holy Law without sin for Gods elect, and He satisfied Gods Holy Justice because the sinned against His Law. Rom 8:3-4

What is the "Moral Law"?

And what does "He satisfied Gods Holy Justice because the sinned against His Law" mean?

[Brightfame52]

mythone

Jesus' sinless life satisfied the law

See My Jesus did both for Gods Elect, He satisfied the Moral Law and Kept Gods Holy Law without sin for Gods elect, and He satisfied Gods Holy Justice because the sinned against His Law. Rom 8:3-4

What is the "Moral Law"?

And what does "He satisfied Gods Holy Justice because the sinned against His Law" mean?

The Moral law is that Law which is written on each mans heart and its stated as the 10m commandments. Rom 2:15

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

Jesus stated it in a nutshell here to a young man Matt 22:34-40

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Jesus fulfilled all the Law by His perfect, sinless, obedience to #1 Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. #2 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus satisfied the Moral Law for Gods elect.

[myth-one.com]

Brightfame52 has claimed that there are two sets of Laws: The Moral Law and Gods Holy Law.

He then quoted Jesus stating that the entire set of laws hangs on two individual laws.

I'll agree with Jesus, that there is one set of laws, and all hang on two individual laws within the set.

Where laws are commandments from God.

Good grief!

[Revelations won]

Too all JW's,

It appears from your posts that you deny the divinity of Jesus Christ.

I have one question for you.

If Jesus the Christ had failed as our Savior and redeemer and as the only name under heaven whereby man may be saved, could anyone ever be saved?

Kind regards,
RW