Do God's Morals Change?

[POI]

The Bible states:

"A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death."

Is this law still binding for anyone today? If so, are such laws ever being carried out?

Or, is it no longer binding for anyone? And if not, why is it no longer binding? And furthermore, if it is no longer binding for anyone, who's to say God's law will not change again someday?

[Miles]

The Bible states:

"A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death."

Is this law still binding for anyone today? If so, are such laws ever being carried out?

Or, is it no longer binding for anyone? And if not, why is it no longer binding? And furthermore, if it is no longer binding for anyone, who's to say God's law will not change again someday?

Lacking any retraction (at least I couldn't find any), of course it's still binding. Aren't all of god's edicts still binding? Of course they are, and that's why even to this day women don't speak in church, we never wear garments of mixed material, we never eat lobster, we don't shave our beards, but we do kill all practicing homosexual males.

Long live the wisdom and justice of Jehovah!


.

[Overcomer]

POI wrote:

"

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death."

Is this law still binding for anyone today? If so, are such laws ever being carried out?

Or, is it no longer binding for anyone? And if not, why is it no longer binding? And furthermore, if it is no longer binding for anyone, who's to say God's law will not change again someday?

Here's the thing about God: He doesn't change as noted numerous times in the Bible. Here are a few examples:

"For I, the Lord, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).

"Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday and forever" (Heb. 12:8).

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change" (James 1:17).

God's character doesn't change. His understanding of sin stems from his character so, therefore, his idea of sin never changes. That means that, because he saw fornication as a sin in the days of Israel, he does indeed see fornication as a sin today.

What DOES change is how he deals with sinners. That is at his discretion.

Think of our court system. There are varying laws with varying judgments, varying punishments, some more lenient than others, etc. on a person to person and case to case basis.

Therefore, at that time, in the nation of Israel, that is how fornication was to be dealt with. It is NOT how it is to be dealt with today and that's because Jesus has come and dealt with sin through his death and resurrection. This is the way he put it:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished" (Matt. 5:17-18.)

All people are born with sin natures that prevent us from keeping the law in its entirety. That means we will remain separated from God forever because we cannot change our sin natures.

In the Old Testament, they offered sacrifices for their sins, but those sacrifices were only temporary and had to be repeated over and over again, and they only covered sin, they did not remove it. The author of Hebrews put it this way:

"For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." (Heb. 10:1-4).

The only sacrifice that could be given for the sins of humanity had to be the sacrifice of a human being. However, just as the lamb sacrificed in the days of the Israelites had to be unblemished (Ex. 12:5), so, too, would a human being, meaning that the human being would have to be sin-free. However, as already noted, all human beings are born with sin nature.

This is why Christ came. As both man AND God, he could die for humanity as the former and be a sinless sacrifice because of the latter (In 1 Peter 1:19 Jesus is described as "the lamb without blemish"). In Hebrews, we read, "And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

Again, referring to Hebrews, we read:

"11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified" (Heb. 10:11-14).

This is why the law re: fornication was meant for the Israelites, not us today. Fornication is still a sin, but it is dealt with differently. Let me repeat: God's idea of sin doesn't change, but how he deals with it has. And that's his prerogative.

Let me put it another way: The Old Testament gives us the old covenant with God. When Jesus comes, he replaces the old with a new one. This is what the Book of Hebrews describes. I encourage people to read that book to grasp an understanding of that. Here are some resources that might help explain it for anyone interested in further reading and research:

https://www.gotquestions.org/old-covena ... enant.html

https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-24- ... rews-87-12

The following article talks about Christians and the Mosaic Law:

https://bible.org/article/mosaic-law-it ... -testament

[Overcomer]

Miles wrote:

Lacking any retraction (at least I couldn't find any), of course it's still binding. Aren't all of god's edicts still binding? Of course they are, and that's why even to this day women don't speak in church, we never wear garments of mixed material, we never eat lobster, we don't shave our beards, but we do kill all practicing homosexual males.

Long live the wisdom and justice of Jehovah!

I explained why the law is no longer binding in my previous post to POI so I won't repeat any of it here. I refer you to it above.

However, I would like to point out that the civil and ceremonial laws given to the nation of Israel were just that -- they were given to the nation of Israel and are not meant for us today. Therefore, it is incorrect to assume that Christians -- or anyone else -- should be following the dietary rules or the rules regarding clothing or shaving one's beard, etc.

See here:

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-law.html

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/arti ... ewish-law/

[POI]

POI wrote:

"

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death."

Is this law still binding for anyone today? If so, are such laws ever being carried out?

Or, is it no longer binding for anyone? And if not, why is it no longer binding? And furthermore, if it is no longer binding for anyone, who's to say God's law will not change again someday?

Here's the thing about God: He doesn't change as noted numerous times in the Bible. Here are a few examples:

"For I, the Lord, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).

"Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday and forever" (Heb. 12:8).

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change" (James 1:17).

God's character doesn't change. His understanding of sin stems from his character so, therefore, his idea of sin never changes. That means that, because he saw fornication as a sin in the days of Israel, he does indeed see fornication as a sin today.

What DOES change is how he deals with sinners. That is at his discretion.

Noted.

Think of our court system. There are varying laws with varying judgments, varying punishments, some more lenient than others, etc. on a person to person and case to case basis.

Therefore, at that time, in the nation of Israel, that is how fornication was to be dealt with. It is NOT how it is to be dealt with today and that's because Jesus has come and dealt with sin through his death and resurrection

I get what you are saying.... A traffic violation might be $100.00 here, but instead $200.00 over there. A traffic violation is still 'wrong', and in need of punishment. Or a traffic ticket fine 25 years ago, verses today, with inflation.

However, we are speaking about the claimed all knowing, all powerful, and all loving creator. Seems as though your argument is that; at one time, for one specific group, the appropriate and commanded punishment for this offense was to be burned to death? Does the punishment ever fit the crime? I guess it's not for me to say, only God's law matters. Make's little sense though, if you really bear down and think about it rationally.

[Miles]

Miles wrote:

Lacking any retraction (at least I couldn't find any), of course it's still binding. Aren't all of god's edicts still binding? Of course they are, and that's why even to this day women don't speak in church, we never wear garments of mixed material, we never eat lobster, we don't shave our beards, but we do kill all practicing homosexual males.

Long live the wisdom and justice of Jehovah!

I explained why the law is no longer binding in my previous post to POI so I won't repeat any of it here. I refer you to it above.

"The "above"

POI wrote:

"

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death."

Is this law still binding for anyone today? If so, are such laws ever being carried out?

Or, is it no longer binding for anyone? And if not, why is it no longer binding? And furthermore, if it is no longer binding for anyone, who's to say God's law will not change again someday?

Here's the thing about God: He doesn't change as noted numerous times in the Bible. Here are a few examples:

"For I, the Lord, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).

"Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday and forever" (Heb. 12:8).

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change" (James 1:17).

God's character doesn't change. His understanding of sin stems from his character so, therefore, his idea of sin never changes. That means that, because he saw fornication as a sin in the days of Israel, he does indeed see fornication as a sin today.

What DOES change is how he deals with sinners. That is at his discretion. So What? THIS this isn't the issue, how god deals with those who break his edicts, but the fact that these acts remain sins. Just as you acknowledge below.


Therefore, at that time, in the nation of Israel, that is how fornication was to be dealt with. It is NOT how it is to be dealt with today Then prove it. Cite the chapter and verse that says sinners are not bound for hell. and that's because Jesus has come and dealt with sin through his death and resurrection. This is the way he put it:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished" (Matt. 5:17-18.) Not a thing about changing how a sin is to be dealt with.


In the Old Testament, they offered sacrifices for their sins, but those sacrifices were only temporary and had to be repeated over and over again, and they only covered sin, they did not remove it. BINGO! Eating lobster in a polyester-rayon suit is still a sin, silly as it is. The author of Hebrews put it this way:

The only sacrifice that could be given for the sins of humanity had to be the sacrifice of a human being. Why? Why couldn't god have sacrificed a turtle instead? As an omnipotent god he could do anything he wanted, including making Tommy Turtle your savior. However, just as the lamb sacrificed in the days of the Israelites had to be unblemished (Ex. 12:5), so, too, would a human being, meaning that the human being would have to be sin-free. Why must this have been so? I don't recall any such mandate being mentioned. However, as already noted, all human beings are born with sin nature. [

This is why Christ came. To abolish the sinful nature of those acts god regards as sins? Hardly. Two homosexual males having sex with each other is still a sin. "To the tool shed men! Grab your pitchforks and a rope" As both man AND God, he could die for humanity as the former and be a sinless sacrifice because of the latter (In 1 Peter 1:19 Jesus is described as "the lamb without blemish"). In Hebrews, we read, "And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

Again, referring to Hebrews, we read:

"11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified" (Heb. 10:11-14).

This is why the law re: fornication was meant for the Israelites, not us today. Nah, wishful thinking, because as you say, "Fornication is still a sin," Just as ALL the others are still sins but it is dealt with differently. Let me repeat: God's idea of sin doesn't change," but how he deals with it has. And that's his prerogative. Yeah, by providing a few the chance to Get-Out-Of-Hell-Free.

Let me put it another way: The Old Testament gives us the old covenant with God. When Jesus comes, he replaces the old with a new one. Who cares. A sin is a sin is a sin.


.

[nobspeople]

The Bible states:

"A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death."

Is this law still binding for anyone today? If so, are such laws ever being carried out?

Or, is it no longer binding for anyone? And if not, why is it no longer binding? And furthermore, if it is no longer binding for anyone, who's to say God's law will not change again someday?

Seems "God's" morals change with man's. So, to me, it's not God's moral, but the morals of the people in that society at the time.

[TRANSPONDER]

I totally agree. As the views and morals of the Bible -contributors changed, those of its' god changed with them. The 'New Covenant' was just reflecting the change from Judaism to Greek Christianity, when the Jews became the bad guys for rejecting Jesus and the Gentiles became the good guys - if they were Christians.

So the discussion is academic because the goddless are not going to be fooled by this 'New Covenant' lark. The know it's a fudge and a fraud.

But it's just interesting to see whether the Bible -believers can come up with a convincing argument or apologetic for God being changeless while at the same time changing everything but his password.

[nobspeople]

But it's just interesting to see whether the Bible -believers can come up with a convincing argument or apologetic for God being changeless while at the same time changing everything but his password.

Surely they can, or will. Or already have
The bible is vague enough, and provides just enough contradictions to itself, to be twisted to say almost anything one wants to justify their chosen agenda-based lifestyle. This is what makes the bible and christianity such a win for individuals: it's not about 'heaven' or 'God' or 'Christ', it's about making judgmental sense to one's chosen lifestyle agenda.

[1213]

The Bible states:

"A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death."

Is this law still binding for anyone today? If so, are such laws ever being carried out?

Or, is it no longer binding for anyone? And if not, why is it no longer binding? And furthermore, if it is no longer binding for anyone, who's to say God's law will not change again someday?

Those priests that Bible is talking about do not exist anymore. So, even if the law is valid, there is no situation where that law would be required.

Also, we don’t have the judges anymore that were set by God. So, even if someone brakes the law, there is no judge to give the judgment. And if we would have, he still would have to go by these rules:

"Thus has Yahweh of Hosts spoken, saying, 'Execute true judgment, and show kindness and compassion every man to his brother.
Zechariah 7:9
I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brothers, and judge righteously between a man and his brother, and the foreigner who is living with him. You shall not show partiality in judgment; you shall hear the small and the great alike; you shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, you shall bring to me, and I will hear it.
Deuteronomy 1:16-17
"You shall not spread a false report. Don't join your hand with the wicked to be a malicious witness. You shall not follow a crowd to do evil; neither shall you testify in court to side with a multitude to pervert justice; neither shall you favor a poor man in his cause.
Exodus 23:1-3
At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he who is to die be put to death; at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
Deuteronomy 17:6

But, the law is still valid, what was wrong before, is still wrong. For example people should not fornicate, even if no one is giving the judgment. And as Bible tells for disciples of Jesus ("Christian"):

"Don't judge, so that you won't be judged. For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you."
Mat. 7:1-2

The law is not about judging, but about telling what is right and wrong. Judge is the one who tells the judgment when he has looked what is the case.

And please, when you show a scripture, show also from where it is.