The Bible, the word of God or the word of men?

[Eloi]

Jehovah's Witnesses regard the Bible as the Word of God that he inspired to be written to instruct his people. That is the direct cause that our people are so different from other religious communities around the world. For example: all Witnesses preach, no Witnesses participate in military matters, we are totally neutral in political matters, etc. I am not talking about a few individuals or small groups of fellow believers with the same principles or beliefs, I am talking about a worldwide community where the more than 8.5 million counted as Jehovah's Witnesses are dedicated, baptized and active public preachers. Furthermore, we all study the same teachings week after week all over the planet. They are direct effects of seriously considering all biblical matters.

Aside from the direct results of being fully guided by the Scriptures, what other evidence do we Witnesses have to consider the Bible as the Word of God? I would like to talk about them little by little on this topic, and although some do not agree, at least you will know what reasons we have for having this point of view on the Bible. First thing, to start on one specific point: prophecies.

To understand the matter of the prophecies that Jehovah's prophets gave in their books, we must first understand one thing: since the Bible was written part by part over a period of about 1600 years, there was already part of the Bible written at the time in which others wrote new inspired books. For example, at the time that Daniel was living in Babylon, he was holding in his hands part of the book that Jeremiah had written some years earlier. This process of writing to join with what has already been written continued throughout the time that the Bible was being completed until it was what we know today. In reality, when Jesus lived as a human, the Scriptures that we call the Old Testament were already complete and he read and studied them.

Although I will talk about other prophecies later, I would like to mention three of them that are especially striking:

1) Did you know that Daniel predicted the time when Jesus would appear as Messiah? How did Daniel know that the Messiah would appear in 29 C.E.?

2) Did you know that the Christians were not destroyed when the Romans attacked Jerusalem in 70 C.E. because Jesus told them more than thirty years before that they had to flee out of there at the right moment?

3) Did you know that the prophet Isaiah predicted more than a century and a half earlier how Babylon would be conquered by the Medo-Persians and even predicted the name of the man who would be directly responsible for that attack?

When we Witnesses see prophecies like these fulfilled, our confidence that the Bible is more than just a book written by men increases. What do critics of the Bible say about biblical prophecies and their fulfillment?

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Eloi in post #86]

You appear to be getting desperate; you sling heaps of Gospel text (Luke) at us when it is already pointed out that Luke changed the abomination of desolation to surrounded by armies. I'd guess because he knew that prophecy wasn't true and so he changed it to what had actually happened. I already asked you to account for that other than as belatedly altered prophecy to fit the facts later on. Still waiting.

[Eloi]

Before Jesus Christ, in the 6th century BC, the prophet Daniel had already prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple according to the words of the angel of Jehovah... and the city had not even been rebuilt after the Babylonians had destroyed it near 70 years before.

Dan. 9:26 (...) “And the people of a leader who is coming will destroy the city and the holy place. And its end will be by the flood. And until the end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.
27 (...) “And on the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, what was decided on will be poured out also on the one lying desolate.”

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Eloi in post #92

Before Jesus Christ, in the 6th century BC, the prophet Daniel had already prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple according to the words of the angel of Jehovah... and the city had not even been rebuilt after the Babylonians had destroyed it near 70 years before.

Dan. 9:26 (...) “And the people of a leader who is coming will destroy the city and the holy place. And its end will be by the flood. And until the end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.
27 (...) “And on the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, what was decided on will be poured out also on the one lying desolate.”

That Christian translations of Daniel 9 are rife with inaccuracy has already been pointed out, but here's a reminder:

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/ar ... ranslation

Note especially:

The punctuation |mark 'atnach functions as the main pause within a sentence. The 'atnach is the appropriate |equivalent of the semicolon in the modern system of punctuation. It thus has the effect of |separating the seven weeks from the sixty-two weeks: ". . . until an anointed one, a |prince, shall be seven weeks; then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again . . ." (9:25).

[Eloi]

Again:

Before Jesus Christ, in the 6th century BC, the prophet Daniel had already prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple according to the words of the angel of Jehovah... and the city had not even been rebuilt after the Babylonians had destroyed it near 70 years before.

Dan. 9:26 (...) “And the people of a leader who is coming will destroy the city and the holy place. And its end will be by the flood. And until the end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.
27 (...) “And on the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, what was decided on will be poured out also on the one lying desolate.”

I was talking in my last post about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, not about the 69 weeks.

Now I am: In the 69 weeks there are 7 and 62 weeks, 7+62 makes 69. The first 7 weeks is when the temple and the city would be rebuilt the first time, before the next destruction prophesied here. Modern Jews don't like the prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple... but they have to admit that Jerusalem and the temple were actually destroyed, and that Daniel and Jesus prophesied it before it happened and Christians did what Jews didn't ... and escaped while they don't. They also don't like the prophecies about the Messiah fulfilled in Jesus. They learn nothing from their own history.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
For example, at the time that Daniel was living in Babylon, he was holding in his hands part of the book that Jeremiah had written some years earlier.
...

Please present this partial book for analysis.

Second request.

This claim of a book is presented as some form of evidence related to following claims within the OP.

Any chance we'll get to see this thing?

Or is this just another making a claim and ignoring challenges tactic we find all to common among theists?

Will the third time be a charm?

Our claimant has referred to this book in support of some notion that we can trust the biblical claims regarding various events or ideas. I seek to examine this book, so that we have the data necessary to analyze the timeline / claims involved here.

I propose if a claimant makes a claim but refuses to even address challenges to that claim, one should invest in Kleenex futures.

The liar lies and the preacher preaches.

Fourth attempt at trying to hold our claimant to honor their responsibility for their claims.

Is it fair that someone can make claims, but never be held responsible for them?

Where's this book this feller has / had.

The liar lies and the preacher preaches.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Eloi in post #94

Modern Jews don't like the prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple... but they have to admit that Jerusalem and the temple were actually destroyed, and that Daniel and Jesus prophesied it before it happened and Christians did what Jews didn't ... and escaped while they don't. They also don't like the prophecies about the Messiah fulfilled in Jesus.

You don't seem to like that the grammar in Daniel invalidates the Christian calculations.

[Eloi]

[Replying to Eloi in post #94

Modern Jews don't like the prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple... but they have to admit that Jerusalem and the temple were actually destroyed, and that Daniel and Jesus prophesied it before it happened and Christians did what Jews didn't ... and escaped while they don't. They also don't like the prophecies about the Messiah fulfilled in Jesus.

You don't seem to like that the grammar in Daniel invalidates the Christian calculations.

You seem to ignore that thousands of Christians speak Hebrew and know Biblical Hebrew.

[JoeyKnothead]

You seem to ignore that thousands of Christians speak Hebrew and know Biblical Hebrew.

You ignore challenges to your claims. You have no right to accuse folks of ignoring anything.

The liar lies and the preacher preaches.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Eloi in post #97

You seem to ignore that thousands of Christians speak Hebrew and know Biblical Hebrew.

It has nothing to do with "thousands of Christians". It has to do with how Christian translators have mishandled biblical text over the centuries.

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/ar ... ns-of-text

[Eloi]

[Replying to Eloi in post #97

You seem to ignore that thousands of Christians speak Hebrew and know Biblical Hebrew.

It has nothing to do with "thousands of Christians". It has to do with how Christian translators have mishandled biblical text over the centuries.

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/ar ... ns-of-text

One thing does not imply the other. Another ridiculous argument.