This is not a question of whether or not evolution is crazy, but how crazy it seems at first glance.
That is, when we discard our experiences and look at claims as if through new eyes, what do we find when we look at evolution? I Believe we can find a great deal of common ground with this question, because when I discard my experience as an animal breeder, when I discard my knowledge, and what I've been taught, I might look at evolution with the same skepticism as someone who has either never been taught anything about it, or someone who has been taught to distrust it.
Personally my mind goes to the keratinised spines on the tongues of cats. Yes, cats have fingernails growing out of their tongues! Gross, right? Well, these particular fingernails have evolved into perfect little brushes for the animal's fur. But I think of that first animal with a horrid growth of keratin on its poor tongue. The poor thing didn't die immediately, and this fits perfectly with what I said about two steps back paying for one forward. This detrimental mutation didn't hurt the animal enough for the hapless thing to die of it, but surely it caused some suffering. And persevering thing that he was, he reproduced despite his disability (probably in a time of plenty that allowed that). But did he have the growths anywhere else? It isn't beyond reason to think of them protruding from the corners of his eyes or caking up more and more on the palms of his hands. Perhaps he had them where his eyelashes were, and it hurt him to even blink. As disturbing as my mental picture is of this scenario, this sad creature isn't even as bad off as this boar, whose tusks grew up and curled until they punctured his brain.
This is a perfect example of a detrimental trait being preserved because it doesn't hurt the animal enough to kill it before it mates. So we don't have to jump right from benefit to benefit. The road to a new beneficial trait might be long, going backwards most of the way, and filled with a lot of stabbed brains and eyelids.
Walking backwards most of the time, uphill both ways, and across caltrops almost the entire trip?
I have to admit, thinking about walking along such a path sounds like, at very least, a very depressing way to get from A to B. I would hope there would be a better way.
How Crazy does Evolution Seem?
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?
Post #1421I have heard of animals that belong to (supposedly) different species within the same genus (according to the classification given to them by specialists) and that under certain circumstances mated and had offspring. Were they really different species as nature dictates?The Barbarian wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 3:04 pmReproductive isolation is what makes it a different species. So long as the two populations interbreed in nature, they are one species. If they don't then they are two species. And yes, evolution means that we should have all sorts of intermediate cases, half-species, quarter-species, etc. As Darwin pointed out. If creationism were true, we wouldn't see any of that.Eloi wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:47 pm [Replying to The Barbarian in post #2]
As I said: Not because they want to classify a blue cat as another species, it will stop being just another cat.
It comes down to reproductive isolation. This is why clines and ring species are so interesting. The extinction of an intermediate population can retroactively change mircroevolution to macroevolution. Would you like to see how?You can call whatever you want to whatever ...
There is not enough knowledge about animals and how they can reproduce with each other. You cannot act as if you already know everything that has to do with nature. You do not even know all the animal species that exist on land or sea. With so little knowledge, what absolute conclusions are you going to draw about nature? The only certainty is that you are not going to change how it works... that's how it was designed and that's how it has been since the beginning. That is why you can study it.
Our Creator made it that way.
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?
Post #1422[Replying to Eloi in post #1423]
Part of that may be because you're responding to posts without any reference to who you're responding to, or attaching quotes to show who you're responding to. So no one knows who you're talking to. If you don't want to use the tools provided for replies that automatically add this information, at least mention the handle to indicate who it is you're responding to. All the you and you're in this email clearly mean Eloi because this is stated at the top of the post.How funny... There was no one in the forum, and suddenly there are three forumers answering in my topic. Were you waiting for me?
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?
Post #1423Maybe because you are just one in five clones? (Spiritually talking ) You like each other all the time. Why don't you give some conferences and charge for it in the forum? It does not look like you will have much people to talk to with your attitude.DrNoGods wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 3:27 pm [Replying to Eloi in post #1423]
Part of that may be because you're responding to posts without any reference to who you're responding to, or attaching quotes to show who you're responding to. So no one knows who you're talking to. If you don't want to use the tools provided for replies that automatically add this information, at least mention the handle to indicate who it is you're responding to. All the you and you're in this email clearly mean Eloi because this is stated at the top of the post.How funny... There was no one in the forum, and suddenly there are three forumers answering in my topic. Were you waiting for me?
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?
Post #1424[Replying to Eloi in post #1426]
Excellent ... now we know who the response was directed to.Maybe because you are just one in five clones? (Spiritually talking )
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
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The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?
Post #1425[Replying to DrNoGods in post #1424]
Yeah, poor of you. You won't get pay if the posts don't mention you are responded to.
That was it for today, so ... low pay for today. Bad luck.
Have a nice one.
Yeah, poor of you. You won't get pay if the posts don't mention you are responded to.
That was it for today, so ... low pay for today. Bad luck.
Have a nice one.
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?
Post #1426[Replying to Eloi in post #1426]
Attitude? Just pointing out, like others, your mistakes in understanding how evolution actually works. Until you can better understand the basics you'll continue to make your own strawmen to attack. For example, you seem to think evolution suggests that the extinct former members of the genus Homo should somehow still be around. You've mentioned this more than once. What makes you think that to be the case? Why do you think, for example, that Homo erectus should still be around according to evolutionary theory?It does not look like you will have much people to talk to with your attitude.
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?
Post #1427[Replying to Eloi in post #1428]
Are you implying that me (or anyone else) gets paid to make posts? Or was that just a sarcastic comment? I mentioned making it clear who you are responding to simply so we can respond accordingly. If you just plant a post with words like you and your, and don't identify who that person is, then we have to try and figure it out from context which isn't always clear.Yeah, poor of you. You won't get pay if the posts don't mention you are responded to.
That was it for today, so ... low pay for today. Bad luck.
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?
Post #1428[Replying to DrNoGods in post #1427]
Yeah, well, English language have the same YOU for singular and for plural.Too bad, right?
10 more cents. Lucky you.
Yeah, well, English language have the same YOU for singular and for plural.Too bad, right?
10 more cents. Lucky you.
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?
Post #1429None of what you said undermines the theory of evolution in the slightest. Your opinion is irrelevant against the mountain of confirming evidence that has been collected and tested. Your opinion also offers nothing at all to confirm the ancient creation story that appears in the Bible. What you believe in that regard is also irrelevant.Eloi wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 3:25 pm There is not enough knowledge about animals and how they can reproduce with each other. You cannot act as if you already know everything that has to do with nature. You do not even know all the animal species that exist on land or sea. With so little knowledge, what absolute conclusions are you going to draw about nature? The only certainty is that you are not going to change how it works... that's how it was designed and that's how it has been since the beginning. That is why you can study it.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?
Post #1430Exactly! It's like seeing a Flat Earther pontificate in his best Dunning-Krugerese on the ignorance of astronomers because they haven't personally visited all the planets to see if they are really round.brunumb wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:01 pmNone of what you said undermines the theory of evolution in the slightest. Your opinion is irrelevant against the mountain of confirming evidence that has been collected and tested. Your opinion also offers nothing at all to confirm the ancient creation story that appears in the Bible. What you believe in that regard is also irrelevant.Eloi wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 3:25 pm There is not enough knowledge about animals and how they can reproduce with each other. You cannot act as if you already know everything that has to do with nature. You do not even know all the animal species that exist on land or sea. With so little knowledge, what absolute conclusions are you going to draw about nature? The only certainty is that you are not going to change how it works... that's how it was designed and that's how it has been since the beginning. That is why you can study it.
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