Does Romans 1:18-20 create doubt for atheists?

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AgnosticBoy
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Does Romans 1:18-20 create doubt for atheists?

Post #1

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Many Christians interpret Romans 1:18 to mean that deep down we all know that God exists.

Romans 1:19-20
19 because that which is known about God is evident [n]within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21
In my view, the apostle Paul goes too far in claiming that non-believers know that the Christian God exists. However, if I'm to look for any validity in his statement, I find that I do have this feeling and/or need for something transcendent. That certainly is not enough to point to anything as specific as the God of the Bible, but it does point to spirituality, in general. One book that touches on this idea is The God Gene by Dean Hamer. Here's one review:
In Hamer's argument, spiritual experiences and religion are nearly universal human attributes. Hamer measures spirituality on a scale of 'self-transcendence', or the ability to see beyond oneself, a concept first introduced by psychologist Robert Cloninger. He draws a sharp distinction between spirituality, which is a personality trait that some of us have to a greater or lesser extent than others, and religion or belief in a particular god, which is a culturally transmitted expression of spirituality.

Hamer admits in his introduction that the volume is misnamed; he isn't talking about genes for being a god, but rather about those that predispose us to religion-neutral spiritual beliefs, experiences and interpretations. Spirituality is not controlled by the product of a single gene but is complex, involving many genes, each making a small contribution to the phenotype, combined with a very strong environmental influence.
I really want to know the following:
1. Did this feeling or sense or need for something greater play any role in leading you to religion or spirituality?
2. For the non-believer or atheist, are you aware of this feeling? Does it lead you to doubt atheism? (in my case, my doubt does not lead me to believe, but instead it drives me to search even more).
Last edited by AgnosticBoy on Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does Romans 1:18-20 create doubt for atheists?

Post #111

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:26 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:34 pm Maybe you should actually read the Law and the prophets. One current event, based on the wars to end wars, was the revival of Judah, the Jews, and Jerusalem passing into Jewish control (Joel 3:1-2), in 1948, which is to lead into the judgment of nations, and the coming kingdom of God (Zechariah 14 & Daniel 2:45). As for the lawless/godless/Progressive/Marxist Antifa, and the failing "Biden", who said that Antifa does not exist, the lawless will be according to Matthew 13:41-42, tossed into the furnace of fire, the great tribulation. As the prophets have said, one is to warn of the coming crisis. Consider this message as a forewarning. That way the blood of the warned, will not be on the head of those who do the warning. (Ezekiel 33:6)
Meh. Make your predictions vague enough and they all come true.

"Tossed into the furnace of fire."
"Blood on their head".

Your religion's a pox on humanity. It belongs to Nazi Germany. It's violence and hatred and slander and insult. Your religion defaces the very idea of peace and harmony. I'd rather bed down with my pigs than to breathe the same air that provides you sustenance.

Your constant, unremitting attacks on perceived "enemies" draws comparison to my own schizophrenia. At least I'm fortunate enough to have folks around who love me, and are willing to help me down off the ledge.

Your kind of discourse is what's tearing this world apart. Like me when I get off my meds, we see demons and disaster all around. We hate and we loathe. We find disgust in all that we don't like.

Fortunately, I have meds to stop my anger and hatred.

The Christian has a book that only fuels theirs.

But we must realize, a good bunch of y'all Christians prefer hatred over rational discourse.

The hater'll find the hate, if he's gotta urinate on Jesus' corpse to do it.
The "furnace of fire" would be the tribulation that will happen when all the nations gather against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14). At the moment we have Iran and the Palestinians vowing to destroy the Jews in Jerusalem, plus the great Satan, the U.S. As for your medical condition, whereas you see demons, that might be more correct than you would like to want to admit as being real. Real peace does not come in the form of a pill, and it is not, like our supposed inflation, transitory.

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Re: Does Romans 1:18-20 create doubt for atheists?

Post #112

Post by JoeyKnothead »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:56 pm The "furnace of fire" would be the tribulation that will happen when all the nations gather against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14). At the moment we have Iran and the Palestinians vowing to destroy the Jews in Jerusalem, plus the great Satan, the U.S.
"Oh noes, it's the great Satan!"

More slander.

I'm curious to know if you're capable of presenting one single argument that doesn't rely on demonizing someone.
As for your medical condition, whereas you see demons, that might be more correct than you would like to want to admit as being real.
I'll stick to what the pros have to allow, not some hateful internet preacher, tyvm.
Real peace does not come in the form of a pill, and it is not, like our supposed inflation, transitory.
Real peace comes when we quit being hatemongers.

Try it sometime.


Edit to add:
It's my contention my position against hateful rhetoric is pertinent to this OP....

Does Romans cause me doubt? Not when there's so much hatred coming from folks who've assumedly read em the rest of the book.

It's folks like otseng, and Miss tam who cause me doubt. They preach kindness, forgiveness, love and understanding. They force me to confront my own failures in these matters.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

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Re: Does Romans 1:18-20 create doubt for atheists?

Post #113

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:17 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:56 pm The "furnace of fire" would be the tribulation that will happen when all the nations gather against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14). At the moment we have Iran and the Palestinians vowing to destroy the Jews in Jerusalem, plus the great Satan, the U.S.
"Oh noes, it's the great Satan!"

More slander.

I'm curious to know if you're capable of presenting one single argument that doesn't rely on demonizing someone.
As for your medical condition, whereas you see demons, that might be more correct than you would like to want to admit as being real.
I'll stick to what the pros have to allow, not some hateful internet preacher, tyvm.
Real peace does not come in the form of a pill, and it is not, like our supposed inflation, transitory.
Real peace comes when we quit being hatemongers.

Try it sometime.


Edit to add:
It's my contention my position against hateful rhetoric is pertinent to this OP....

Does Romans cause me doubt? Not when there's so much hatred coming from folks who've assumedly read em the rest of the book.

It's folks like otseng, and Miss tam who cause me doubt. They preach kindness, forgiveness, love and understanding. They force me to confront my own failures in these matters.
Good for them if they got you to the point where you recognize your failures. Now, before the sky falls (Revelation 16:21), would be a good time for you to do something about them. As for being hateful, it appears you kind of don't like theist, whereas most of them don't know you are even alive. Only to a fascist/Marxist/Progressive is debating a hate crime. If you have any truths to exhibit, feel free to exhibit them. The OP is about "doubt for atheists". They have much to doubt, and apparently you are admitting your doubt. If you don't like where history conflicts with your beliefs, then print out my responses and simply burn them, or better yet, howl at the moon. As for Miss tam, she struggles along with you. Maybe you can make a breakout together.

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Re: Does Romans 1:18-20 create doubt for atheists?

Post #114

Post by JoeyKnothead »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:57 pm Good for them if they got you to the point where you recognize your failures. Now, before the sky falls (Revelation 16:21), would be a good time for you to do something about them.
Just pointing to a claim in the bible is a poor means of determining truth.
...
Only to a fascist/Marxist/Progressive is debating a hate crime.
I reject any notion or law that criminalizes thought.
If you have any truths to exhibit, feel free to exhibit them.
You'll never show your biblical clams're truth.
The OP is about "doubt for atheists". They have much to doubt, and apparently you are admitting your doubt.
I doubt you'll ever put you truth to your claim of a falling sky.
If you don't like where history conflicts with your beliefs, then print out my responses and simply burn them
I see no need to further damage the atmosphere over anything you have to allow.
or better yet, howl at the moon.
Might as well. I've failed to convince you that spreading your hatred is a wrong way to go
...
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

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