Ghosts and goblins

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:34 am

Since Halloween is fast approaching I thought I would ask a simple question:
As a Christian, do you believe in ghosts?
How about a devil or devils?
Witches?
Goblins?
Angels?
Vampires?
Can a person be possessed?
Did Jesus walk on water?
Did Jesus rise from the dead?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:02 am

Lotan wrote:
juliod wrote:Anyway, what does it matter what christians claim? As I said above, christians are free to claim anything they want about Jesus, just as I can claim anything I want about Bob. The question is, why do you believe in one zombie and not another?
How can I have a personal relationship with Bob?

Well, first you have to meet him at the local bar.....

seventil · Post by **seventil** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:26 am

juliod wrote:
Let's be fair. As long as you can make up things about your fictional zombies, I can make up stuff about my fictional zombies. And that, I'm afraid, sums up the total of world religions.

Hi juliod, been a long time.

Any interesting argument you bring up here. Whenever I see your name on a post, I can safely assume you are going to say something to try to assert the intellectual superiority of a non-believer; I guess it would be a... "moot" point to ask you and try to respect what others believe in before trying to belittle and offend people by saying that who we believe in is fictional?

Back to your comment: Yes, you can make stuff up about a fictional zombie. And, I agree, from a non-believer point of view, Jesus is in fact 1. fictional and 2. supposedly raised from the dead. So, I see how you could construe an opinion of yours, however childish it may seem.

Anyway, my point for this reply is thus: You doing this is the equivalent of one of us (Christian) throwing scripture around like it's going out of style, misquoting atheists and yelling at everyone they are going to hell because they don't believe in God.

So, to sum it all up: Respect what others believe in and we will do the same. THOU SAYEST THE LORD.

(And for the record I was not offended by any of these comments)

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:48 pm

I don't believe in any Zombies. Jesus doesn't fit the category.

Sure he does. He died, then he "came back". Since all zombies (including both Jesus and Bob) are fictional you can't make any concrete statements about what is and what is not a "true" zombie.

DanZ

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:58 pm

I guess it would be a... "moot" point to ask you and try to respect what others believe in before trying to belittle and offend people by saying that who we believe in is fictional?

No, it would be "mute".

Back to your comment: Yes, you can make stuff up about a fictional zombie. And, I agree, from a non-believer point of view, Jesus is in fact 1. fictional and 2. supposedly raised from the dead. So, I see how you could construe an opinion of yours, however childish it may seem.

I'm intrigued as to how it can seem "childish" to draw the obvious conclusions about what the Jesus story is saying.

Anyway, my point for this reply is thus: You doing this is the equivalent of one of us (Christian) throwing scripture around like it's going out of style, misquoting atheists and yelling at everyone they are going to hell because they don't believe in God.

Yeah, so?

Respect what others believe in and we will do the same.

OK, you go first.

DanZ

achilles12604 · Post by **achilles12604** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:01 am

juliod wrote:
I don't believe in any Zombies. Jesus doesn't fit the category.
Sure he does. He died, then he "came back". Since all zombies (including both Jesus and Bob) are fictional you can't make any concrete statements about what is and what is not a "true" zombie.

DanZ

I gave you the definition of a Zombie. Here let me help . . .

zom‧bie  /ˈzɒmbi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[zom-bee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. (in voodoo) a. the body of a dead person given the semblance of life, but mute and will-less, by a supernatural force, usually for some evil purpose.
b. the supernatural force itself.

from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Zombie

Now show that Jesus was only given semblance of life (as opposed to actual life that Christians claim) and that he was mute and will-less and then show it was for an evil purpose.

Then we can debate further. Until then, this matter is closed.

Lotan · Post by **Lotan** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:08 am

seventil wrote:Any interesting argument you bring up here. Whenever I see your name on a post, I can safely assume you are going to say something to try to assert the intellectual superiority of a non-believer; I guess it would be a... "moot" point to ask you and try to respect what others believe in before trying to belittle and offend people by saying that who we believe in is fictional?

I realize that this was just a roundabout ad hominem shot at juliod but it does cause me to wonder, why would you consider it belittling and offensive to question a belief in something that admittedly can't be proven and is contrary to normal experience? Also why do you think that holding a different point of view implies "intellectual superiority"? There are very intelligent Christians and there are very intelligent atheists. They can't all be right.

achilles12604 · Post by **achilles12604** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:22 am

Lotan wrote:
seventil wrote:Any interesting argument you bring up here. Whenever I see your name on a post, I can safely assume you are going to say something to try to assert the intellectual superiority of a non-believer; I guess it would be a... "moot" point to ask you and try to respect what others believe in before trying to belittle and offend people by saying that who we believe in is fictional?
I realize that this was just a roundabout ad hominem shot at juliod but it does cause me to wonder, why would you consider it belittling and offensive to question a belief in something that admittedly can't be proven and is contrary to normal experience? Also why do you think that holding a different point of view implies "intellectual superiority"? There are very intelligent Christians and there are very intelligent atheists. They can't all be right.

This was IMHO your best and most insightful post ever.

Admittedly some things can not be proven. Miracles recorded in the bible, can not be proven. They do have supporting evidence in some cases but absolute proof is another matter. In the case of the resurrection, there is much stronger evidence to consider that with other claims, which is where my opinion leaves off from yours. After all even you admit that the very first believers held to an account of the resurrection. There must have been a reason. But we are already hashing this one out.

Also I have seen numerous cases on this very thread where non-theists have done just what Seventil asserts. An example would be recently I read and replied to a post by Chem where he writes "

How the hell can you have a decent argument/disagreement with people who seem to have lost all sense of reality?

From http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... c&start=30

I have seen many other non-theists write similar things including Juliod, so while Seventil's statement could be construed as ad hominem, there is also truth to it. Many times non-theists do claim to have the intellectual high ground.

The most correct thing you wrote is here however . . .

There are very intelligent Christians and there are very intelligent atheists. They can't all be right.

There are very intelligent people on both sides of the debates. Hence we are here. And it is equally true that they can't both be right. I guess time (or death) will tell. Until then, we will be in an eternal struggle.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:42 am

Did I read that someone said they believed in Witches?
I got to look.
Yes some one did. But they also wrote:

Goblins: no, doesnt make sense.

achilles12604:

There are very intelligent people on both sides of the debates. Hence we are here. And it is equally true that they can't both be right. I guess time (or death) will tell. Until then, we will be in an eternal struggle.

I am all for the struggle. We just can't let either side win or one side take over. They can't be trusted with our lack of knowledge.

achilles12604 · Post by **achilles12604** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:09 am

Cathar1950 wrote:Did I read that someone said they believed in Witches?
I got to look.
Yes some one did. But they also wrote:
Goblins: no, doesnt make sense.

Yes. And did you see my explaination? Critique that if you're going to be critical.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:08 pm

achilles12604 wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:Did I read that someone said they believed in Witches?
I got to look.
Yes some one did. But they also wrote:
Goblins: no, doesnt make sense.

Yes. And did you see my explaination? Critique that if you're going to be critical.
I didn't feel any Critique was needed. It was funny.
I just wonder how you draw the line.