Exception on inherited sin

[nobspeople]

One way or the other, many christians believe mankind inherited sin from the fall of Adam and Eve. For the .0001% that don't know, Adam and Eve caused sin to enter mankind because they did something they were told not to do: eat from the tree. This condemned mankind to hell unless one accepts god's sacrifice (the story goes)*.

Flash forward to the 80's & 90's.

There was a big 'anti-gay' push in the USA from many christians*. Gay people tried to explain that being gay wasn't a choice and the mantra 'born this way' came about, much to the dismay of many a christian:
"God didn't create a man to lie with a man!" the said (though, not many seemed to care about a woman with a woman - weird ). "Being gay is a sin!" they'd say. "You're choosing to sin by being gay!" they'd say. And on and on.

And yet, many of these same christians claimed that mankind had inherited sin from A&E 'back-n-da-day'*.

So, it seems, mankind inherited sin from A&E. This means each person born is born into sin and must repent and be saved*. Yet, a person can't be born gay (yet those not gay seemingly are born straight - again: weird).

Fast forward to the 21st century and many (maybe even most) christians have accepted that it's not being gay that's a sin, but acting on it that's a sin. It seems either god changed its mind or these bible believing christians of the 80s & 90s had it wrong - maybe their 'spiritual ears' were plugged?

At any rate, the questions for discussions are:
1) How is it that mankind can be born into sin, being gay is a sin, yet one can't be born gay when others are born straight? and
2) How did the change of 'being gay isn't a sin but acting on it is' happen? Were these believers mis-informed? Did god change its mind? Did society influence this religious belief? Or was it something else, entirely?

*Not all christians believe this

[1213]

....
1) How is it that mankind can be born into sin, being gay is a sin, yet one can't be born gay when others are born straight?

By what I know, “born into sin” means we are born in separation from God to this first death. I don’t think anyone is born gay, because I don’t think children are sexual when they are born. Sexuality is something that develops to human, similarly as taste for certain food develops when person grows. I think sexuality is like taste for food. Some people have twisted taste for food and for example like olives. Some people have twisted taste for sex and like things that are not reasonable nor healthy. If homosexuality would be something that person has from birth, the alphabet group would not have the need to go to little children and indoctrinate and groom them for their preferred sexuality.

2) How did the change of 'being gay isn't a sin but acting on it is' happen? Were these believers mis-informed? Did god change its mind? Did society influence this religious belief? Or was it something else, entirely?

I think Bible has been very clear on this matter right from the beginning. The homosexual act is what is not good. Perhaps Christians should have been more careful on what they teach and remain loyal to what is actually said in the Bible.

[Miles]

....
1) How is it that mankind can be born into sin, being gay is a sin, yet one can't be born gay when others are born straight?

By what I know, “born into sin” means we are born in separation from God to this first death. I don’t think anyone is born gay, because I don’t think children are sexual when they are born. Sexuality is something that develops to human, similarly as taste for certain food develops when person grows.

I agree. The development of sexual orientation, whatever it may be, is not chosen---I don't recall ever choosing to be heterosexual. Do you? Assuming you are indeed heterosexual.

I think sexuality is like taste for food. Some people have twisted taste for food and for example like olives.

"Olives??" Olives are a great fruit. What's twisted is liking lutefisk, a chemical-soaked, gelatinous (ugh!) fish occasionally needing to be served in a bowl.

Some people have twisted taste for sex and like things that are not reasonable nor healthy.

Other than those acts society has deemed to be criminal, what are you thinking of here? What sex acts are unreasonable?

If homosexuality would be something that person has from birth, the alphabet group would not have the need to go to little children and indoctrinate and groom them for their preferred sexuality.

How about if, as you describe, "it's something that develops to human, similarly as taste for certain food develops when person grows"? Nobody chooses to be homosexual just as nobody chooses to be heterosexual.

2) How did the change of 'being gay isn't a sin but acting on it is' happen? Were these believers mis-informed? Did god change its mind? Did society influence this religious belief? Or was it something else, entirely?

I think Bible has been very clear on this matter right from the beginning.

Actually, it has not. The Bible never goes into the how or why of being gay is okay with god, but acting upon one's homosexual sex drives is not.

The homosexual act is what is not good.

And why not? God never says. Never. ... Personally, I think god is a homophobe, possibly because he has sublimated homoerotic feelings? Possible? Why not?

Perhaps Christians should have been more careful on what they teach and remain loyal to what is actually said in the Bible.

And perhaps Christians would do well not to listen to everything god has said. Did you, 1213, remaining loyal to the Bible, kill your quota of gays last year?

Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Miles in post #3]

And perhaps Christians would do well not to listen to everything god has said. Did you, 1213, remaining loyal to the Bible, kill your quota of gays last year?

Now come on! There's no proof in that scripture that says it has to be an actual year! It could be 8 months. Or 16.
Let's remain open minded here

[1213]

…. The development of sexual orientation, whatever it may be, is not chosen---I don't recall ever choosing to be heterosexual. Do you? Assuming you are indeed heterosexual...

I wouldn’t say it is a choice, at least normally. It is more like habit that person develops. Similarly, as person can develop a taste for certain foods. When sexuality develops, it can be directed to different things. And that depends on conditions. For example, some traumatic event can cause the development to go to direction that is not good for the person.

Old people don’t change habits easily, but little children are more malleable and it is easier to turn the development to bad track. That is why I think people should be careful in what they tell to children, because in children wrong words can cause lot of bad things that leads to development that is not good for the child. And this is not only in case of sexuality.

Other than those acts society has deemed to be criminal, what are you thinking of here? What sex acts are unreasonable?

Unreasonable is to use body parts for things that they are not meant for, which can easily cause for example health problems.

…The Bible never goes into the how or why of being gay is okay with god, but acting upon one's homosexual sex drives is not.

The word gay should mean only a lighthearted and carefree person, as it once was. I don’t think it is reasonable to call someone gay (homosexual), at least not before he has done the act. Similarly, as people are not called thieves before they have stolen something.

…And perhaps Christians would do well not to listen to everything god has said. Did you, 1213, remaining loyal to the Bible, kill your quota of gays last year?

Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

.

That is not the only thing Bible says. Firstly, I don’t think I am a judge set by God, therefore I don’t judge. Not all people have the right to judge. Secondly, even if I would be a judge, set by God, I would forgive. And lastly, a Christian means a disciple of Jesus, and for them Jesus is the king. And he said:

"Don't judge, so that you won't be judged. For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you."
Mat. 7:1-2

I want to be a disciple of Jesus and remain in his words.

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

But, I recommend everyone not to do wrong things, because they are not beneficial and can lead to death.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

[Miles]

…. The development of sexual orientation, whatever it may be, is not chosen---I don't recall ever choosing to be heterosexual. Do you? Assuming you are indeed heterosexual...

I wouldn’t say it is a choice, at least normally. It is more like habit that person develops. Similarly, as person can develop a taste for certain foods. When sexuality develops, it can be directed to different things. And that depends on conditions. For example, some traumatic event can cause the development to go to direction that is not good for the person.

Old people don’t change habits easily, but little children are more malleable and it is easier to turn the development to bad track. That is why I think people should be careful in what they tell to children, because in children wrong words can cause lot of bad things that leads to development that is not good for the child. And this is not only in case of sexuality.

A "habit" you say. I presume this didn't just pop into your head, but came from actual scientific research. Having never heard of such a reason, please share your resources.

Thank you.

Other than those acts society has deemed to be criminal, what are you thinking of here? What sex acts are unreasonable?

Unreasonable is to use body parts for things that they are not meant for, which can easily cause for example health problems.

Unreasonable uses such as putting one's self into a position to be tackled by a 310 pound defensive tackle, or becoming a trapeze artist perhaps, or maybe free diving to depths of 700 feet. But back to the issue at hand. I'm curious as to what sexual acts you see as causing health problems. That is, health problems specific to particular sex acts.

Sexual acts that are neither reasonable nor healthy

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…The Bible never goes into the how or why of being gay is okay with god, but acting upon one's homosexual sex drives is not.

The word gay should mean only a lighthearted and carefree person, as it once was. I don’t think it is reasonable to call someone gay (homosexual), at least not before he has done the act. Similarly, as people are not called thieves before they have stolen something.

Yeah, but that's just the way language works; there are no "shoulds." If there were we'd most likely still be speaking Shakespearean English, or worse. All languages continually evolve, with words taking on new meanings while dropping old ones. It's as certain as the Sun rising in the morning.

…And perhaps Christians would do well not to listen to everything god has said. Did you, 1213, remaining loyal to the Bible, kill your quota of gays last year?

Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

.

That is not the only thing Bible says. Firstly, I don’t think I am a judge set by God, therefore I don’t judge.

Of course it's not the only thing the Bible says, and nobody's asking you to judge anything, at least not here. However, I do know that Christians are expected to follow god's general commands. All of them, including his command to kill practicing homosexual men---for some reason practicing homosexual females get off with only a scolding. Go figure.

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[brunumb]

Old people don’t change habits easily, but little children are more malleable and it is easier to turn the development to bad track. That is why I think people should be careful in what they tell to children, because in children wrong words can cause lot of bad things that leads to development that is not good for the child. And this is not only in case of sexuality.

That is so true. We see it happening all the time with religious indoctrination of children. When their beliefs have been thoroughly inculcated it is so hard to rid them of those beliefs later in life.

[brunumb]

I'm curious as to what sexual acts you see as causing health problems. That is, health problems specific to particular sex acts.

The irony here is that a very large proportion of heterosexuals engage in the same activities that homosexual couples do and that does not exclude Christians. (Is this where we cue the "No True Christian" response?)

[Difflugia]

What sex acts are unreasonable?

Latex suits can trap a lot of body heat. It's easy to become caught up in the moment and not realize that you're overheating until you pass out. That can be pretty scary for everyone involved. There's nothing worse than regaining consciousness while covered in feathers and staring down a frightened llama.

That's what I've heard, anyway.

[nobspeople]

Old people don’t change habits easily, but little children are more malleable and it is easier to turn the development to bad track. That is why I think people should be careful in what they tell to children, because in children wrong words can cause lot of bad things that leads to development that is not good for the child. And this is not only in case of sexuality.

That is so true. We see it happening all the time with religious indoctrination of children. When their beliefs have been thoroughly inculcated it is so hard to rid them of those beliefs later in life.

Having a lot of young people in my family (from 5 to 30 years old), I can say from experience that children are a lot stronger than people give them credit for. Simply talking about homosexuality, religion, politics, economics, etc, doesn't harm children. The issues that cause harm is, like you said, things like 'indoctrination', which can be applied no matter the subject. This typically includes saying XYZ is wrong, which is often ended with a treat: "being/doing XYZ will send you to hell; make you a bad person; make it so you won't have any friends; will cause us to disown you" and the like.
This speaks to more fear from the adults than any issue with the children. Which happens all too often IMO.