Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

[POI]

Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?

For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.

[1213]

I think that the message is clear and good. If people twist Bible to mean something else than what it says, it is not the fault of the book.

If you think the message is "clear and good", then why does no Christian here, who responded to this thread, agree with your conclusion for the Bible God's method to salvation? I guess this means all other Christians here, who responded, are twisting?

If you think someone disagrees with me, perhaps you should ask him, why it is so. There can be many reasons to disagree. However, I think it would be good to keep the focus on, what is actually said in the Bible. If someone doesn't understand some scripture, I would like to know why.

[TRANSPONDER]

I think that the message is clear and good. If people twist Bible to mean something else than what it says, it is not the fault of the book.

If you think the message is "clear and good", then why does no Christian here, who responded to this thread, agree with your conclusion for the Bible God's method to salvation? I guess this means all other Christians here, who responded, are twisting?

If you think someone disagrees with me, perhaps you should ask him, why it is so. There can be many reasons to disagree. However, I think it would be good to keep the focus on, what is actually said in the Bible. If someone doesn't understand some scripture, I would like to know why.

Nice try at controlling the discussion. But no chocolate mint. Arguably if the believers had an apologetic they half - believed, they'd be saying it. So would you instead of sending us off to do your goose chase research. Maybe you should ask why they aren't supplying your apologetics, or agreeing with those you have posted? It suggests they aren't convinced. Again, maybe you should ask why they don't endorse your doctrines. Doesn't it suggest that they agree with we goddless that Faith not Works is the ticket to salvation and your interpretation of the 'what the Bible says' insistence that following orders rather than believing in God gets no takers. But they would rather not get into the polemical crossfire

[POI]

If you think someone disagrees with me, perhaps you should ask him, why it is so. There can be many reasons to disagree.

The entire point of this thread is to demonstrate that all of you fine folks give Biblical reason(s) for your position. But they conflict. They cannot all be right, otherwise you would all agree to the same answer for how to achieve salvation. And yet, you chose a differing answer than all other Christians who opted to answer. Since all of you are earnest and intelligent, this means your believed upon author is not clear in his instruction here, unlike with his many other moral pronouncements. Which means God has the ability to be clear, but isn't. This is demonstrated by the fact that if I were to ask all of you, who answered, to tell me what God's stance is about cheating, murder, trespassing, etc, you would all give the same answer.

I think it would be good to keep the focus on, what is actually said in the Bible. If someone doesn't understand some scripture, I would like to know why.

I already told you why. Romans 3-4 explains why you are mistaken. I gave you the Biblical reason(s). Which is also, at least in part, why no other Christian here agrees with you about how to achieve salvation.

[1213]

The entire point of this thread is to demonstrate that all of you fine folks give Biblical reason(s) for your position. But they conflict....

They conflict only if they are twisted to mean something else than what is actually written, or if person takes only a small part of Bible and not the whole Bible that gives the correct meaning to single scriptures. Therefore it is not the problem of Bible, but the selective reading, or interpretations people should not make.

I already told you why. Romans 3-4 explains why you are mistaken. I gave you the Biblical reason(s). Which is also, at least in part, why no other Christian here agrees with you about how to achieve salvation.

Sorry, I don't think it explains I am mistaken. Please explain how it shows that?

[1213]

....Again, maybe you should ask why they don't endorse your doctrines....

My doctrines? People don't have to agree with my doctrines. If they are disciples of Jesus ("Christians"), they should agree with Jesus and his word.

[TRANSPONDER]

....Again, maybe you should ask why they don't endorse your doctrines....

My doctrines? People don't have to agree with my doctrines. If they are disciples of Jesus ("Christians"), they should agree with Jesus and his word.

There's the problem. People who follow the Bible, what it says and Jesus' word and all the other pink goo claims of Bible - belief lead to people coming up with their own interpretations (and doctrines) and all claiming to be right (and you may know that I think they all believe God is telling them). So why would anyone accept your claims and assurances, when they don't follow the consensus even if Bible interpretation is arguable, and you have put in a sturdy argument for following the word rather than just having Faith in Jesus.

You should know by now that it isn't about what you agree with or not but what case you can make. Christians commonly think they win if they refuse to accept anything. But that's not how logical and evidence - based discussion work.

[POI]

Please explain how it shows that?

I already did, multiple times. You either don't get it or are in denial. I'm not going to go on the merry-go-round yet again.

[TRANSPONDER]

Please explain how it shows that?

I already did, multiple times. You either don't get it or are in denial. I'm not going to go on the merry-go-round yet again.

I have to say that nobody does denial and demanding explanations when it has already been explained, like this poster.

[1213]

Please explain how it shows that?

I already did, multiple times. You either don't get it or are in denial. I'm not going to go on the merry-go-round yet again.

In that case, sorry, please show in what post you did that.

[1213]

There's the problem. People who follow the Bible, what it says and Jesus' word and all the other pink goo claims of Bible - belief lead to people coming up with their own interpretations (and doctrines) and all claiming to be right (and you may know that I think they all believe God is telling them). So why would anyone accept your claims and assurances, when they don't follow the consensus even if Bible interpretation is arguable...

I think the problem is in that people make interpretations. Is there any good reason to do so? Do you have some good reason why interpretation is higher than what is directly said in the Bible?